I won't argue that KG is a great defender, I just don't think he's top 5 in the league anymore. There are tons of great defenders in the league--it bothers me that any time we talk about "the best", or "the top 5", people act like whoever is left out is being disrespected or said to be mediocre or something...not the case. There are probably 15-20 GREAT defenders in the league, and I don't use the word great lightly.

True

only 73 more to go to catch Jordan :s

2quik4u wrote: only 73 more to go to catch Jordan :s

Yeah, I don't think Kobe will get too many more of those. Not that he isn't great, but he has too much talent around him. If he goes for 25 a night, they will probably still win the whole thing.

He has 4 this year already but I expect his #'s to drop off a little once Pau comes back

The problem with naming defensive teams is what defense are we talking about? 1 on 1? Or team defense?

Lebron is the best team defender in the league, period. If you watch the games, teams fear Lebron coming out of nowhere and slamming the ball down your throat. As far as best 1 on 1 defender, who knows? I mean there are so many instances where the best 1 on 1 defender gets absolutely beat that its hard to pick. Lebron isn't terrible at 1 on 1, but he's also the only player in the NBA that can guard all 5 positions and that to me, makes him the best defensive player in the league.

And KG, Duncan, Battier, and Artest should are not top 5 defenders. If you truly believe that, then you watch way too much ESPN.

2quik4u wrote: He has 4 this year already but I expect his #'s to drop off a little once Pau comes back

Yeah. He will still have the occasional 40 and 50 pt night, but they really should be able to rest him some at the end of games because of some blow out wins.

I have watched LeBron enough to know he is a top 5 defender.

I don't think ANY defender causes Carmelo or Paul Pierce the problems LeBron does.

Lebron is a great defender. Like sleeper said, he is the best in the business at team defense. As for on the ball defense, he is above average and getting better.

sleeper wrote: The problem with naming defensive teams is what defense are we talking about? 1 on 1? Or team defense?

Lebron is the best team defender in the league, period. If you watch the games, teams fear Lebron coming out of nowhere and slamming the ball down your throat. As far as best 1 on 1 defender, who knows? I mean there are so many instances where the best 1 on 1 defender gets absolutely beat that its hard to pick. Lebron isn't terrible at 1 on 1, but he's also the only player in the NBA that can guard all 5 positions and that to me, makes him the best defensive player in the league.

And KG, Duncan, Battier, and Artest should are not top 5 defenders. If you truly believe that, then you watch way too much ESPN.

Since none of those guys are not in the top 5, whom do you have in the top 5.

Lebron, Howard, CP3, Wade, Kobe

Very good point about the types of defenders. LeBron is an amazing weak side defender, but not as good on the ball as Kobe or Wade... but LeBron is far better than both of them on the backside and defending fast breaks.


As far as pure stats go, LeBron has Kobe beat. Numbers just don't lie. Kobe is a far better scorer than LeBron, but Lebron is the better rebounder.

I think this year will make the conversation between the two even more interesting. To be frank, Kobe is at the top of the mountain and that's where Lebron is dying to be. I honestly thought this was the season where I would finally declare LeBron the best player in the league, but I'm still not ready to do that.. and it doesn't look like Kobe is ready for everyone to do that. I will say this though.. if I'm not watching Kobe play, there is no other player I would rather watch than LeBron James.

My point is.. let's see the playoffs this year, then talk. Kobe's 35ppg and Lebron's huge stats last year didnt mean jack once the real season started.

Kobe channeling MJ:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Kobe-s-hangin-two-handed-over-the-head;_ylt=ArmisOydRp.b19ROh0P3XP.8vLYF?urn=nba,203345

by the way guys.. it's nice to be able to have a real NBA discussion on here. FINALLY!

LTrain23 wrote: I have watched LeBron enough to know he is a top 5 defender.

I don't think ANY defender causes Carmelo or Paul Pierce the problems LeBron does.

I agree with you bro.

Top 5 in no order

LBJ
Kobe
Howard
Wade
Paul

Sorry TB, I can't agree with you about Kobe still being the best player in the league.

And like you said, stats don't lie. Neither does the tape anymore either. Kobe is not a "far better scorer". LeBron, Melo and Durant are the best 3 scorers in the NBA right now. The ONLY thing that Kobe fans had left was the jumper--but not so far this year. LeBron gets to the rack like Kobe never could.

You are right that he is a better rebounder. Helps that he's bigger and plays the 3 (most of the time) as opposed to the 2. He's also a better passer. He's the best passer that isn't a PG that the league has seen since Magic IMO, he sees lanes that shouldn't be there.

Let's face it Kobe fans, it's not slam on your dude--he's one of the best of all time and still in this discussion so that tells you all you need to know about him. But LeBron James is the best player in the world right now, IMO has been for the past few years and will be...for awhile.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Sorry TB, I can't agree with you about Kobe still being the best player in the league.

And like you said, stats don't lie. Neither does the tape anymore either. Kobe is not a "far better scorer". LeBron, Melo and Durant are the best 3 scorers in the NBA right now. The ONLY thing that Kobe fans had left was the jumper--but not so far this year. LeBron gets to the rack like Kobe never could.

You are right that he is a better rebounder. Helps that he's bigger and plays the 3 (most of the time) as opposed to the 2. He's also a better passer. He's the best passer that isn't a PG that the league has seen since Magic IMO, he sees lanes that shouldn't be there.

Let's face it Kobe fans, it's not slam on your dude--he's one of the best of all time and still in this discussion so that tells you all you need to know about him. But LeBron James is the best player in the world right now, IMO has been for the past few years and will be...for awhile.

If the stats don't lie, then how is Kobe not still the best scorer in the NBA??

Wait, wait...because he's averaging more points?!?!?! Remember last year, when we had an argument about who the best scorer was and I said how are you not the best scorer when you're averaging the most points and Kobe fans told me it was because Kobe has a better jumper than LeBron. And PPG didn't matter that much...I mean I'm only using your logic! But that's fine, we can use mine (which makes WAY more sense) and call Kobe the best scorer in basketball right now because he is averaging the most points. But I'm willing to make a bet that he won't be top 5 by the end of the season.

Oh and a random fact: LeBron is taking a few shots less per game than last year. The talk of him being a slasher and not a better scorer than Kobe have been done IMO, but certainly are now.

Lebron and Kobe are about equal right now. its so hard to tell which is the better player when the play different styles. imo Lebron will seperate himself next year or maybe even this year in the playoffs. as far as defenders go, as much as it kills me to say it Rasheed Wallace is a damn good on the ball defender also. as for all around defense, kobe howard lebron Kg and Wade

"The ONLY thing that Kobe fans had left was the jumper--but not so far this year. LeBron gets to the rack like Kobe never could."


Must be why Kobe is 2nd in points in the paint this year with 14.0 ppg. Yeah he can't get to the rack LMAO!!!!!!!!!1



"But I'm willing to make a bet that he won't be top 5 by the end of the season."

I'll take that bet. If Kobe isn't in the top 5 by the end of the season I'll stop posting on all NBA threads and if he is you stop posting on NBA threads for the 2010-11 season. You in?????

Yeah Kobe has been pretty nasty this year in the paint. He can't throw it down like LBJ anymore (however, don't sleep on him), but his post game is on another planet compared to LBJ.

jpake1 wrote: Yeah Kobe has been pretty nasty this year in the paint. He can't throw it down like LBJ anymore (however, don't sleep on him), but his post game is on another planet compared to LBJ.

Honestly, I don't get that. Lebron is such a beast down low, but hardly ever posts up. He could back anyone in this league down, but never does. Kobe's post up game is so polished and there is no way of stopping that little fadaway jumper that he has pretty much perfected.

He could, but that's not his game and not what this team needs right now. He does it more often than he used to, but he's way more dangerous from the outside in. He can still get to the rim just about whenever he wants, jumper is hitting good. They don't need him to post up, he's more dangerous if he isn't. It's not like he isn't scoring points.

Trueblue23 wrote:

If the stats don't lie, then how is Kobe not still the best scorer in the NBA??

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Lebron over his career averages more points than Kobe.

Stats don't lie.

It never hurts, and can only help a team if a perimeter player has a good post game. It's just another weapon he can pull out. I just don't think he does it often because he doesn't feel very comfortable with that skill set quite yet.