B
BCSbunk
Posts: 972
Mar 23, 2010 2:11pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/
I found this online that shows what happens to you with the healthcare reform.
I found this online that shows what happens to you with the healthcare reform.
Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Mar 23, 2010 2:45pm
I'm sure it's accurate too.
B
BCSbunk
Posts: 972
Mar 23, 2010 2:53pm
Hmm must of shown you will save money. Since that simply cannot be true you claim it is not accurate LMAO.Cleveland Buck wrote: I'm sure it's accurate too.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Mar 23, 2010 2:57pm
It omits the effect the additional inflation will have on everyone, so it's clearly not an accurate model.
Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Mar 23, 2010 3:10pm
I didn't click on it. Why would I? Anyone who claims to know how this will affect anyone is lying.BCSbunk wrote:Hmm must of shown you will save money. Since that simply cannot be true you claim it is not accurate LMAO.Cleveland Buck wrote: I'm sure it's accurate too.
thePITman
Posts: 3,867
Mar 23, 2010 3:12pm
I ran it for a single (1) with insurance through my company, and then for a married couple (2) insured through my company; and as long as my combined income was $199,999 or less, I did not lose my insurance, and I did not get any tax increase.
RedBlackAttack
Posts: 133
Mar 23, 2010 3:13pm
Interesting... But aren't you the same person that was arguing with me last night that you knew what the result of this bill would be? I can supply quotes if needed. I enjoyed our little back-and-forth and it is certainly nothing against you, but your statement here is inconsistent.Cleveland Buck wrote:I didn't click on it. Why would I? Anyone who claims to know how this will affect anyone is lying.BCSbunk wrote:Hmm must of shown you will save money. Since that simply cannot be true you claim it is not accurate LMAO.Cleveland Buck wrote: I'm sure it's accurate too.
Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Mar 23, 2010 3:31pm
I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
Little Danny
Posts: 4,288
Mar 23, 2010 3:33pm
I ran it for my household and I got this back:
RedBlackAttack
Posts: 133
Mar 23, 2010 3:40pm
So, you are able to accurately predict how the dominos will fall 10 years down the line for a myriad of institutions but it is impossible for anyone to prognosticate on how the legislation will impact individual people in the short run?Cleveland Buck wrote: I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
What I've heard from the right today is that the health insurers love this bill and it was a sweetheart deal for them as well as pharma. You took the exact opposite approach.
tk421
Posts: 8,500
Mar 23, 2010 3:49pm
We can look back on the myriad of past government programs, seeing that a very significant majority cost way more than estimated, and rightly infer that this bill will cost the taxpayers a whole lot more than Obama and the CBO has said. Would that not be logical? Should we say that this bill will be any different from the others? Why? Because a black president signed it? Yes, I went there.RedBlackAttack wrote:So, you are able to accurately predict how the dominos will fall 10 years down the line for a myriad of institutions but it is impossible for anyone to prognosticate on how the legislation will impact individual people in the short run?Cleveland Buck wrote: I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
What I've heard from the right today is that the health insurers love this bill and it was a sweetheart deal for them as well as pharma. You took the exact opposite approach.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 23, 2010 3:50pm
Well it said I would not pay taxes. BUT...
It says IF I pay more than 9.5% of my income for premiums (which I don't), my yearly cap is $4427 for premiums. I currently pay around $2400/yr for premiums. So, my premiums can rise until I meet the 9.5% and there is nothing I can do about it.
If I do the math, my premiums would have to be about $4800/yr (double what they are now) before I could get the credits, which would reduce it down to a max of 4427, which is still 2000 more than I pay now.
Sounds fun!
It says IF I pay more than 9.5% of my income for premiums (which I don't), my yearly cap is $4427 for premiums. I currently pay around $2400/yr for premiums. So, my premiums can rise until I meet the 9.5% and there is nothing I can do about it.
If I do the math, my premiums would have to be about $4800/yr (double what they are now) before I could get the credits, which would reduce it down to a max of 4427, which is still 2000 more than I pay now.
Sounds fun!
RedBlackAttack
Posts: 133
Mar 23, 2010 3:54pm
He didn't argue that this bill would simply cost taxpayers more money than what is estimated by the administration or the CBO. He predicted that this bill would force every insurance company to disband and that the legislation was designed so that, years down the line, universal healthcare would be a last resort for the country.tk421 wrote:We can look back on the myriad of past government programs, seeing that a very significant majority cost way more than estimated, and rightly infer that this bill will cost the taxpayers a whole lot more than Obama and the CBO has said. Would that not be logical? Should we say that this bill will be any different from the others? Why? Because a black president signed it? Yes, I went there.RedBlackAttack wrote:So, you are able to accurately predict how the dominos will fall 10 years down the line for a myriad of institutions but it is impossible for anyone to prognosticate on how the legislation will impact individual people in the short run?Cleveland Buck wrote: I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
What I've heard from the right today is that the health insurers love this bill and it was a sweetheart deal for them as well as pharma. You took the exact opposite approach.
That is a far cry from simply arguing the predictors given by the CBO.
tk421
Posts: 8,500
Mar 23, 2010 3:55pm
If this bill costs way more than estimated, wouldn't it cost the insurance companies way more than estimated, also? I can see some of them going out of business. After all, it is now cheaper for businesses to pay a fine than provide insurance to their workers.RedBlackAttack wrote:He didn't argue that this bill would simply cost taxpayers more money than what is estimated by the administration or the CBO. He predicted that this bill would force every insurance company to disband and that this bill was designed so that, years down the line, universal healthcare would be a last resort for the country.tk421 wrote:We can look back on the myriad of past government programs, seeing that a very significant majority cost way more than estimated, and rightly infer that this bill will cost the taxpayers a whole lot more than Obama and the CBO has said. Would that not be logical? Should we say that this bill will be any different from the others? Why? Because a black president signed it? Yes, I went there.RedBlackAttack wrote:So, you are able to accurately predict how the dominos will fall 10 years down the line for a myriad of institutions but it is impossible for anyone to prognosticate on how the legislation will impact individual people in the short run?Cleveland Buck wrote: I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
What I've heard from the right today is that the health insurers love this bill and it was a sweetheart deal for them as well as pharma. You took the exact opposite approach.
That is a far cry from simply arguing the predictors given by the CBO.
RedBlackAttack
Posts: 133
Mar 23, 2010 5:58pm
I'm not even saying that it is an impossibility. My point was that ClevelandBuck castigated someone for giving their opinion on what kind of impact the bill will have in the short term because he said that we can't know its outcome after he made some prognostications a few hours before that were far more bold.tk421 wrote:If this bill costs way more than estimated, wouldn't it cost the insurance companies way more than estimated, also? I can see some of them going out of business. After all, it is now cheaper for businesses to pay a fine than provide insurance to their workers.RedBlackAttack wrote:He didn't argue that this bill would simply cost taxpayers more money than what is estimated by the administration or the CBO. He predicted that this bill would force every insurance company to disband and that this bill was designed so that, years down the line, universal healthcare would be a last resort for the country.tk421 wrote:We can look back on the myriad of past government programs, seeing that a very significant majority cost way more than estimated, and rightly infer that this bill will cost the taxpayers a whole lot more than Obama and the CBO has said. Would that not be logical? Should we say that this bill will be any different from the others? Why? Because a black president signed it? Yes, I went there.RedBlackAttack wrote:So, you are able to accurately predict how the dominos will fall 10 years down the line for a myriad of institutions but it is impossible for anyone to prognosticate on how the legislation will impact individual people in the short run?Cleveland Buck wrote: I told you what the ultimate effects of the bill would be on this country, not individual people. I also said that the ultimate consequences wouldn't be as a direct result of this bill, but of the government option that this bill will open the door for, so the effects of this bill on the people are irrelevant.
What I've heard from the right today is that the health insurers love this bill and it was a sweetheart deal for them as well as pharma. You took the exact opposite approach.
That is a far cry from simply arguing the predictors given by the CBO.
That was the point.
I don't pretend to know the longterm impact of this bill. I haven't read the entire thing, only bits and pieces, and I refuse to rely on zealots from either side to frame the legislation for me.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Mar 23, 2010 7:29pm
Neither has most of congress.RedBlackAttack wrote: I don't pretend to know the longterm impact of this bill. I haven't read the entire thing, only bits and pieces, and I refuse to rely on zealots from either side to frame the legislation for me.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
Mar 23, 2010 8:58pm
This "calculator" seems to leave off the addes taxes for "cadillac" plans.
Not to mention the fact that companies with cadillac plans for their employees will probably end up dropping down to a cheaper plan due to the tax increases.
So no Mr. President, I won't be able to keep my health insurance like you promised.
Not to mention the fact that companies with cadillac plans for their employees will probably end up dropping down to a cheaper plan due to the tax increases.
So no Mr. President, I won't be able to keep my health insurance like you promised.
S
superman
Posts: 3,582
Mar 23, 2010 9:06pm
Does the calculator add in the 10% tax for going to a tanning bed?
Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Mar 23, 2010 9:51pm
Nonsense. The calculator first predicted the behavior of business and insurance companies before predicting the effect the bill would have on individual people.jmog wrote: This "calculator" seems to leave off the addes taxes for "cadillac" plans.
Not to mention the fact that companies with cadillac plans for their employees will probably end up dropping down to a cheaper plan due to the tax increases.
So no Mr. President, I won't be able to keep my health insurance like you promised.
Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Mar 23, 2010 10:00pm
The "calculator" takes Obama's words at face value and doesn't give a shit about how the bill affects the industry. It just takes what the bill says and applies it to you. It isn't a prediction. It is how the bill will affect you in a vacuum where nothing else is affected by its passage.
S
stlouiedipalma
Posts: 1,797
Mar 24, 2010 9:07pm
A lot of you folks have claimed that our taxes would be rising dramatically ever since Obama won the election. Has this happened yet? Not a smart-assed question, I really want to know. I haven't really noticed anything different with my taxes, except that since I retired 3 years ago I have been able to claim the medical deduction because I pay over $14,000 per year in insurance premiums for me and my wife.
S
stlouiedipalma
Posts: 1,797
Mar 24, 2010 9:28pm
Has this happened yet? Rather than spout the "sky is falling' rhetoric, why not admit that nothing has happened yet to raise your taxes? Just because you say that he will "go tax apeshit" doesn't make it so. Show me specific plans that are in place which will raise my taxes and I might just believe you. Otherwise, it's just the same old fear-mongering the right is famous for.
O
ou1980
Posts: 877
Mar 24, 2010 9:32pm
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 24, 2010 9:36pm
That is relative. They will go back to the level of the 90s, which wasn't that bad in terms of overall levels.ccrunner609 wrote:stlouiedipalma wrote: A lot of you folks have claimed that our taxes would be rising dramatically ever since Obama won the election. Has this happened yet? Not a smart-assed question, I really want to know. I haven't really noticed anything different with my taxes, except that since I retired 3 years ago I have been able to claim the medical deduction because I pay over $14,000 per year in insurance premiums for me and my wife.
He is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, that will increase everyones taxes.
Just wait if he gets a second term. He will go tax apeshit.
I'm 50/50 on the future of the bill. Part of me thinks it will crash and burn, and the other half of me thinks it will trudge along, slowly, but will start to be "effective" in 2-3 years.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Mar 24, 2010 10:30pm
The Bush tax cuts never should have happened so...ccrunner609 wrote:stlouiedipalma wrote: A lot of you folks have claimed that our taxes would be rising dramatically ever since Obama won the election. Has this happened yet? Not a smart-assed question, I really want to know. I haven't really noticed anything different with my taxes, except that since I retired 3 years ago I have been able to claim the medical deduction because I pay over $14,000 per year in insurance premiums for me and my wife.
He is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, that will increase everyones taxes.
Just wait if he gets a second term. He will go tax apeshit.