namod65 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.

09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.

Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.

One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.

Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.

The Cavs/Magic series was three last second shots away from being the Cavs in 6...

And yeah see above for the Mavs/Warriors series as well.

It was also a miracle LeBron 3 away from being Orlando 3-0.. Because we weren't winning game 3 regardless.

Thanks for the "tip" fooqtus, but your hair splitting dimentia only proves your innability to see the forest for the trees.

Does it render in your skull that you've become what you complained the most about other Cav fans?

Just enjoy the games, we've got the best team going now league wide, but some will still find reason to complain....sound familiar?

Per 36 minutes for boards...

LeBron-6.6
Darnell-6.6
Francisco Elson-7.1
Rasho Nasterovic-8.9
DaSagana Diop-8.9
Kwame Brown-9.1
Darko (w/Knicks)-9.1
DJ Mbenga-9.4
Darko(w/Wolves)-9.5
Coby Karl-14.4

I never said that Brown is a bad coach. He is a good coach, but he isn't a great one. What I said is that for all the talent and ability that this Cavs team has Mike Brown can still fuck it up. Look at what he did against the Magic last year. He employs these complex help and recover schemes to cover up the short comings on the defensive end of some of his main guys. He does that because LeBron can play the rover position on defense. But those help and recover schemes collapse with the pick and roll and good ball movement. Go back and watch the Magic series from last year. Van Gundy figured out how to beat Browns scheme and time after time the Magic slow played the pick and roll to get wide open threes on the other side of the court. And Brown had no answer for it. The Cavs couldn't guard Lewis or Turk, and certainly could not guard either at the same time when Brown takes LeBron, his best perimeter defender, and matches him up on Rafer Alston or Jameer Nelson for most of the series. Hell it was apparent to everyone by the end of game 3 that the game plan that he developed for the Magic series was a complete bust. Turkoglu and Lewis were getting every shot they wanted whenever they wanted them. But Brown kept the scheme in place for the rest of the series, I damn near threw my Cell Phone through the TV when I saw LeBron matched up with Alston to start game 6. That series was a classic example of a guy repeatedly making the wrong decision in the hope that one day it might be the right one. The Cavs have taken his defensive mentality to heart, I don't have an issue with that.

My biggest problem with Brown is this. Ferry has built a team that is filled with good spot up shooters, and several athletic big men who can run the floor and he has collected those pieces around arguably the greatest open court player in the history of the game. But under Brown the Cavs play at one of the slowest paces in the league and they shoot a ton of 3's. Most of those 3 point attempts come late in the shot clock against set defenses which is far from an efficient shot. The best time to shoot threes is in transition and off offensive rebounds. They have a high efficiency rating now, but it could be off the charts if Brown would actually use the talent he has on the offensive end and would push the pace. Mike Brown could engineer a flawless run to the title for the Cavs this spring, it is well within the realm of possibility. But there is still a relatively large probability that he could have a series long brain fart and do something stupid like putting LeBron on Jameer Nelson instead of Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis and he could cost the Cavs a title in the bargain.

sportswizuhrd wrote: Per 36 minutes for boards...

LeBron-6.6
Darnell-6.6
Francisco Elson-7.1
Rasho Nasterovic-8.9
DaSagana Diop-8.9
Kwame Brown-9.1
Darko (w/Knicks)-9.1
DJ Mbenga-9.4
Darko(w/Wolves)-9.5
Coby Karl-14.4

Clearly, it was a mistake to let Coby Karl go.

LTrain23 wrote: First of all, why would you list per 36 minutes? An NBA game is per 48 minutes.. Usually, when you compare stats PER minute, you're comparing it over the course of an entire NBA game..

Listen...I don't set the rules on what stats the NBA uses. The NBA does. Secondly, if the average is for 36 minutes, then the average would be the same for 24, 48, 06, 140 or 10 minutes. Jesus, what exactly is your problem here? Math give you some trouble back in high school?

However, I'm tired of arguing over your bullshit. It's obvious that Antawn has made us a much better team.. He's bringing in double-doubles nightly with us.. Stop being fucking ignorant, because that's the only thing you're doing on this subject.

Then don't argue about it. Nobody is forcing you to comment. Adding AnTawn Jamison has not made the Cavs any better. None. And your "Cavs are 8-1 with Jamison" is a joke...and you know it's a joke. The fact that he plays more than AV is what's a joke...and it damn well hurts our chances in winning a title. Open up your fuckin eyes for a change.

As far as Andy, I was on the "Pay the man" bandwagon.. I remember me and SQ going to war over on JJ Huddle when this happened, trying to debate his value to this team with other posters.

What do want for that? An internet medal? I stated that AV does a lot of things better than Rodman, and people gave me shit for it. So what?

With that said, AGAIN, Andy is more effective when he gets around 20-23 MPG because he can play 100% the entire time on the court w/o being tired and ineffective.

Bullshit. Today Verajou played 30 minutes...and never wore down. You love Jamison...I don't. I can't stand his shot, and he makes way too many mistakes on the defensive side of the ball.

Seriously, enjoy what we fucking have and stop finding reasons to suddenly BITCH about... I hate fans who bitch about anything and everything on a team that is currently 52-15. Seriously. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

No pal, you shut the fuck up. Reread my posts. All I'm guilty of is stating the truth...and the truth is a positive thing...that last year's team was the best in the league. I stand by my statement.

If you don't like it...then don't respond. It's that simple.

Well, since "thedave" apparently never made the move here, you Cleveland fans need a replacement, don't you?

As for your reply to me, Foot, you never explained why you feel things like regular season margin of victory and win percentage are so important to you. They were the overall #1 seed last year, but didn't even make the finals. Since then, they obtained players they feel will give them that extra edge in the postseason. If that doesn't happen, you might be right in your claims...but if they win a title or even make the finals, that means they have improved...regardless of how their regular season compares to last year's. In the NBA, for any team that's truly good, the regular season is just a really long tune-up for the playoffs.

As for your "play better without Shaq" point, you're correct, at least as far as playing individual games against random teams go. Playing up to 7 straight games against one of those teams...who knows? Do you also think the Lakers are better without Kobe because they won games without him? Do you hope Mo and Delonte don't make it to the postseason because the Cavs had a huge win streak with them sidelined?

LTrain23 wrote:

sportswizuhrd wrote: Per 36 minutes for boards...

LeBron-6.6
Darnell-6.6
Francisco Elson-7.1
Rasho Nasterovic-8.9
DaSagana Diop-8.9
Kwame Brown-9.1
Darko (w/Knicks)-9.1
DJ Mbenga-9.4
Darko(w/Wolves)-9.5
Coby Karl-14.4

Clearly, it was a mistake to let Coby Karl go.

I think we can pick him up again, but we have to look past the fact that he average's 28.8 turnovers per 36 mins and has 0's across the board in other stats. As long as he keeps up his 14.4 boards per 36 mins, it will be easy to forget about those 0's.

namod65 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.

09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.

Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.

One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.

Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.

The Cavs/Magic series was three last second shots away from being the Cavs in 6...

And yeah see above for the Mavs/Warriors series as well.

Wow...someone actually has the balls to agree with me.

To further the illustration......Game 4..Cavs up 1 point...15 seconds to go. Orlando shoots...ball caroms off the heal and is heading out of bounds. DWest and Howard dive for the loose ball. Ball hits DeLonte's leg and goes OB. Pure luck. Then Wallace gets picked and Lewis hits a 3 with 8 seconds left. But it gets better. LBJ drives the lane down 2 and gets fouled. Cleveland fans are stroking out as LBJ needs to make both free throws to force OT.

Shot one rattles around and falls in. Shot number 2....hits the front rim, hits the back rim, goes back to the front rim, and then sits on the front rim for a full second...and could fall either way. On the replay, AV had slipped inside of Howard, leaped up, and was poised for the game winning tap in..if the ball came off. Unfortunateky, the ball slowly fell in, denying the Cavs and Andy a game wining tap in.

If the Cavs win game 4, then the Cavs would have won game 7. If the Cavs win game 7, then Cavs would have had the HC advantage against the Lakers...and probably win it all.

And then all of this bullshit of "not matching up" would be forever hidden deep inside the rectal bowels of the fuckin know it alls that permeate the Cav threads with an overwhelming hubritic stench.

Rant over.

LMAO.

cool.

Only fact I care about? Cavs are 8-1 with Jamison in the line up.

Which ='s an .888 winning percentage, which is greater than what we were without him.

You have been owned, using FACTS and math. Clearly math gives you trouble. Now, stfu.

Oh, by the way, per 36 minutes with the Cavs, Antawn is averaging 19 points and 8 rebounds..

Per 36 minutes.. You were saying?

Also, yes, Andy played 30 minutes today, which is cool over the course of a couple of games or every now and then, however, if he averaged 30MPG he'd be worn out by the playoffs.

I like where his minutes are now. Keeps him fresh.

Also, after looking at the standings, the Celtics and Thunder both have identical 41-24 records... Wonder who is set up better for future runs?

Footwedge wrote:

namod65 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.

09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.

Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.

One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.

Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.

The Cavs/Magic series was three last second shots away from being the Cavs in 6...

And yeah see above for the Mavs/Warriors series as well.

Wow...someone actually has the balls to agree with me.

To further the illustration......Game 4..Cavs up 1 point...15 seconds to go. Orlando shoots...ball caroms off the heal and is heading out of bounds. DWest and Howard dive for the loose ball. Ball hits DeLonte's leg and goes OB. Pure luck. Then Wallace gets picked and Lewis hits a 3 with 8 seconds left. But it gets better. LBJ drives the lane down 2 and gets fouled. Cleveland fans are stroking out as LBJ needs to make both free throws to force OT.

Shot one rattles around and falls in. Shot number 2....hits the front rim, hits the back rim, goes back to the front rim, and then sits on the front rim for a full second...and could fall either way. On the replay, AV had slipped inside of Howard, leaped up, and was poised for the game winning tap in..if the ball came off. Unfortunateky, the ball slowly fell in, denying the Cavs and Andy a game wining tap in.

If the Cavs win game 4, then the Cavs would have won game 7. If the Cavs win game 7, then Cavs would have had the HC advantage against the Lakers...and probably win it all.

And then all of this bullshit of "not matching up" would be forever hidden deep inside the rectal bowels of the fuckin know it alls that permeate the Cav threads with an overwhelming hubritic stench.

Rant over.

That's a huge stretch of logic even for you

I think that you need to change your handle to LTrain6 pretty damn soon. By not doing so, I will hold you personally responsible for LeBron leaving.

Now back to 3rd grade math...I'm just trying to be your math tufor here. Don't get all huffy. Maybe your teachers didn't explain to you what averages mean.

If Astrubel, Cabrera gets 33 hits in 100 at bats, then he is hittimg .333. If he gets 66 hits in 200 official at bats he hits 333. Rebound averages are based on rebounds per minute on the court. Averages are simply ratios. Hits to official as bats, wherby rebounds are counted as boards per minute. In baseball, averages are ratios of hiis to official,at bats..total rebounds to minutes played.

Jo Smith knocking down 8.8 boards per minute is 10% higher than Jamison. If Astrubal hits .300. and Choo hits .330 then it is factual to say that Choo hits 10% higher than Astrubal.

Yon see, meth doesn't lie. The numbers are the munbers. and as such, Joe Smith from a factual point of wiew, had a 10% higher production rate that PoonTawn does. This fact cannot be denied or debunked. It is what it is . Now, the irrespective shooting percentages are statistically the same, Then one can compare turnovers, blocked shots to further the debate.

The bottom line, Jue Smith's contribution was better than PoonTawn. And wee won't even mentioin the 45% at the line vesus Joe's 73%.

It really is 3rd grade material.

Let me hekp you out here. Judt because I'm really just a great guy trying yo do a civid cuty in educating one of my felloew Cavalier fans

You really are an idiot. Seriously, I mean that. Never did I once say anything about Joe Smith. Try reading comprehension, it'll make you look a lot less stupid.

However, I've based my points on nothing but facts, yet you try to spin it anyway you can, then in turn, try to question my math because my stats prove me right?

In fact, I find it hilarious that you try to question my math, but your entire post is littered with spelling and grammar errors..

Seriously though, 19 points and 8 boards in 36 MPG, (36 MPG is the criteria you wanted to use) completely blows out any argument you have regarding anything on Antawn. Again, 19 points and 8 rebounds..

I'm really trying to keep this as simple as possible for you. Nothing we said here relates to baseball in ANYWAY. The only thing that relates to this debate is what I posted. 19/8 per 36 MPG.

The Cavs are 8-1 with AJ in the line up.. I'll again do the math for you on that.. It equates to a winning percentage of .888%.. Which is a significantly better clip then what we had without him.. Since all you care about are numbers and sample sizes, I've done nothing but counter your weak ass lame attempts to trash Antawn Jamison.

Again, I love Andy as much as anybody, which is why I like to see his minutes kept in check, so he's as fresh as possible. In fact, Antawn isn't even bothering Andy's minutes seeing as how Andy splits between two positions. I've seen Andy and Antawn work really well together while on the court, as both can rebound at a great clip and Antawn helps create for Andy.

But, since all you care about is what guys do per 36 MPG, here you go...

Antawn Jamison 19 points and 8 rebounds
Anderson Varejao 11 points and 9 rebounds
Joe Smith 12 points 10 rebounds

However, if you honestly think that Joe Smith could post those kind of numbers you're an absolute idiot. Dude only plays 8 minutes per game now for a reason.. He has nothing much left in the tank, and proved that lasts season with us. Per 36 minutes is such a bogus way of comparing players that you should be banned for using it.

Whoever posted the RPM per 36 minutes leaders absolutely made you look like a dumbass, simply for the fact that Coby Karl averages 15 rebounds per 36 minutes..

If you have a player who averages 1 MPG and averages 1 PPG, per 36 minutes he'd have averages of 36 PPG LMAO! Yeah...

The thing with Antawn is that while he averages 19/8 per 36, he actually averages about 34-36 MPG, so those are his ACTUAL numbers. Not what his current numbers would "average" out to be per 36 minutes.

I hope the above stats show you how dumb it is to use "prorated" stats. Use the stats that are actually decided by the players. Such as current PPG, RPG, etc..

Maybe next time, you'll make more sense.

come on ltrain, just stop man...99% of this board knows you are right and knows footwedge is a complete moron.

No need to keep it goin with him, it just gives him the opportunity to voice his retarded "opinions" and "facts"

Here's waht should happen...everyone just ignores the guy, the cavs win the nba championship, and we all celebrate on here...when footwedge gets on to celebrate with us, we call out his fanhood and simply don't count him in as a Cavs fan enjoying the title, simply because he didn't believe in it's players, like the rest of us did.

It'll be a lot more glorious then spending your time throwin out truth, and having him pretend it's not true and give his own "side" to the argument (as if there even is an argument).

It'll go somethin like this:

Jamison for the win........GOOD! GOOD! GOOD! The Cavs win the nba championship!!!!

me "fuuuuuuuuuuuck yeeeeeeah!"
you "we won the fuckin title!!"
other real cavs fans on here "finally, we won a title!! The curse is over!!"
footwedge "yeah guys! alright! we did it!"

Everyone at the same time "eat shit footwedge"


It'll be glorious

SportsAndLady wrote: It'll go somethin like this:

Jamison for the win........GOOD! GOOD! GOOD! The Cavs win the nba championship!!!!

me "fuuuuuuuuuuuck yeeeeeeah!"
you "we won the fuckin title!!"
other real cavs fans on here "finally, we won a title!! The curse is over!!"
footwedge "yeah guys! alright! we did it!"

Everyone at the same time "eat shit footwedge"


It'll be glorious

Haha I must admit I envisioned the same exact sequence of events happening...

Footwedge wrote: I'm just trying to be your math tufor here.

Trying to be his what?

Yon see, meth doesn't lie.

I will take your word for it.

It really is 3rd grade material.

..and so are the words you can't seem to spell.

Let me hekp you out here. Judt because I'm really just a great guy trying yo do a civid cuty in educating one of my felloew Cavalier fans

I really hope you typed this whole reply on a phone.

Rebound averages are based on rebounds per minute on the court.

Do you mean Per 36 minutes or per game?

Soooo Foot statistically what will it take for you to acknowledge Jamison as a good pick up? Averaging more rebounds per minute than Joe Smith? Lebron-esque numbers? What if they win the title with him in the starting lineup? Or will you complain that they didn't go undefeated in the playoffs? Or will it be that they won by a higher margin per game last year? Basically, my question is...what would it take to put your foot in your mouth about this whole thing?

Haha this is comical. I'm with sportsandlady! His idea is genius.

i'll tell you this much , if the cavs dont get better at the charity stripe they aint gonna win it all. how many points have the cavs left out there the last few weeks due to missed fould shots? this trend has to stop

footwedge=biggest dbag cleveland fan? Nevermind..thats not even a question.

Footwedge: you are an idiot if you think Jamison is not a good player. Do you remember what Rashard Lewis did to us last year?!?!??!!??!!? He did that because we didnt have 4 athletic enough to guard him. That is why we got Jamison. Varejao and JJ are good in the post, not guarding 3 point shooters that can drive around them easily. Im not going to waste my time looking up stats because I know I am right. Lewis had to average 20+ against us last year in the ECF because we could not stop him! There is no question we have the most stacked roster from top to bottom in the NBA.

KnightRyder wrote: i'll tell you this much , if the cavs dont get better at the charity stripe they aint gonna win it all. how many points have the cavs left out there the last few weeks due to missed fould shots? this trend has to stop

Absolutely 100% agree

LTrain23 wrote: You really are an idiot. Seriously, I mean that. Never did I once say anything about Joe Smith. Try reading comprehension, it'll make you look a lot less stupid.

However, I've based my points on nothing but facts, yet you try to spin it anyway you can, then in turn, try to question my math because my stats prove me right?

In fact, I find it hilarious that you try to question my math, but your entire post is littered with spelling and grammar errors..

Seriously though, 19 points and 8 boards in 36 MPG, (36 MPG is the criteria you wanted to use) completely blows out any argument you have regarding anything on Antawn. Again, 19 points and 8 rebounds..

I'm really trying to keep this as simple as possible for you. Nothing we said here relates to baseball in ANYWAY. The only thing that relates to this debate is what I posted. 19/8 per 36 MPG.

The Cavs are 8-1 with AJ in the line up.. I'll again do the math for you on that.. It equates to a winning percentage of .888%.. Which is a significantly better clip then what we had without him.. Since all you care about are numbers and sample sizes, I've done nothing but counter your weak ass lame attempts to trash Antawn Jamison.

Again, I love Andy as much as anybody, which is why I like to see his minutes kept in check, so he's as fresh as possible. In fact, Antawn isn't even bothering Andy's minutes seeing as how Andy splits between two positions. I've seen Andy and Antawn work really well together while on the court, as both can rebound at a great clip and Antawn helps create for Andy.

But, since all you care about is what guys do per 36 MPG, here you go...

Antawn Jamison 19 points and 8 rebounds
Anderson Varejao 11 points and 9 rebounds
Joe Smith 12 points 10 rebounds

However, if you honestly think that Joe Smith could post those kind of numbers you're an absolute idiot. Dude only plays 8 minutes per game now for a reason.. He has nothing much left in the tank, and proved that lasts season with us. Per 36 minutes is such a bogus way of comparing players that you should be banned for using it.

Whoever posted the RPM per 36 minutes leaders absolutely made you look like a dumbass, simply for the fact that Coby Karl averages 15 rebounds per 36 minutes..

If you have a player who averages 1 MPG and averages 1 PPG, per 36 minutes he'd have averages of 36 PPG LMAO! Yeah...

The thing with Antawn is that while he averages 19/8 per 36, he actually averages about 34-36 MPG, so those are his ACTUAL numbers. Not what his current numbers would "average" out to be per 36 minutes.

I hope the above stats show you how dumb it is to use "prorated" stats. Use the stats that are actually decided by the players. Such as current PPG, RPG, etc..

Maybe next time, you'll make more sense.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH AND COMPLETE FUCKING OWNAGE