Most people are not stupid....they know that we'll have difficulty meeting our Social Security obligations let alone a new entitlement program that'll cost even more. They are wary of another government program and the bureaucracy associated with it. The Dems are delusional if they thought the elections of 2008 were about left vs right....and that Obama's election was a vote of confidence in liberalism.

^^^One thing is clear: At least BHO, Reid, and Pelosi are delusional.

Why do you think so many Dem Congressmen have abandoned ship, have their heads buried in the sand, or at least need closed-door back room deals to buy their votes on this monstrosity?

I don't see the Dems losing either body in the Midterms. What I am anxious to see is how the R's will campaign using this:


"My stance on every major issue facing Americans during these past two years has been 'no'. I have had nothing whatsoever to offer up as an alternative. Vote for me and you can be assured of a 'no' vote for the length of my term as long as the Democrats control Congress."


There are no plans, no agendas, no vision to lead this country, just "no". Imagine if you will explaining to your constituency that, if elected, you will do nothing but simply vote "no" on every piece of legislation which comes down the pike. What's impressive is that there are actually people out there who are willing to have this country spin its wheels for four years just so their party might return to power.

No additional government programs != country spinning its wheels. Not even close.

stlouiedipalma wrote: I don't see the Dems losing either body in the Midterms. What I am anxious to see is how the R's will campaign using this:


"My stance on every major issue facing Americans during these past two years has been 'no'. I have had nothing whatsoever to offer up as an alternative. Vote for me and you can be assured of a 'no' vote for the length of my term as long as the Democrats control Congress."


There are no plans, no agendas, no vision to lead this country, just "no". Imagine if you will explaining to your constituency that, if elected, you will do nothing but simply vote "no" on every piece of legislation which comes down the pike. What's impressive is that there are actually people out there who are willing to have this country spin its wheels for four years just so their party might return to power.

Spoken like a true Dem....you just gotta stick your mitts in everything. Sometimes it's better to do nothing than to take action that'll make things worse....and it is entirely justified to 'say no' to those kind of actions.
Saying 'no' to programs that'll take us down a rabbithole is hardly anything to be ashamed of. To be fair, I am disappointed in the Republicans for not suggesting alternatives for healthcare. John McCain had an excellent plan to give the 30-40 million uninsured a tax credit to help them insure themselves. That idea would have cost less than $60 billion, would have kept government from getting even deeper into the healthcare business, and could have beeen accomplished with a stroke of a pen rather than creating a huge new bureaucracy.

Tax Credit? Does that mean they would receive a check or that they would pay less taxes?

Because many of the people uninsured already don't pay taxes so getting a discount on those wouldn't really help.

if they pay so little... they probably qualify for medicaid, an existing program.

HitsRus wrote: if they pay so little... they probably qualify for medicaid, an existing program.

I was actually asking a question. Not trying to show holes in his argument. I wanted to know the answer.

But you're probably right anyway. Although feel free to answer the question if anyone knows.

I say this with all sincerity, that I have never in my 46 years seen and talked with so many angry people over the health care issue. I do expect the Republicans to make significant gains, maybe not enough for a majority, but enough to essentially shut down both houses.

If this "bill" is so great why don't the President and both houses adopt it as their own form of health care?

ghosthunter wrote: I say this with all sincerity, that I have never in my 46 years seen and talked with so many angry people over the health care issue. I do expect the Republicans to make significant gains, maybe not enough for a majority, but enough to essentially shut down both houses.

If this "bill" is so great why don't the President and both houses adopt it as their own form of health care?

Man, there's that common sense again. You noticed that huh? No one in Washington is rushing to use the same "health care" that they are trying to pass off to the public.

stlouiedipalma wrote: I don't see the Dems losing either body in the Midterms. What I am anxious to see is how the R's will campaign using this:


"My stance on every major issue facing Americans during these past two years has been 'no'. I have had nothing whatsoever to offer up as an alternative. Vote for me and you can be assured of a 'no' vote for the length of my term as long as the Democrats control Congress."


There are no plans, no agendas, no vision to lead this country, just "no". Imagine if you will explaining to your constituency that, if elected, you will do nothing but simply vote "no" on every piece of legislation which comes down the pike. What's impressive is that there are actually people out there who are willing to have this country spin its wheels for four years just so their party might return to power.

i agree with this. it seems the GOP is willing to waste four years of our country just to get the dems out....pretty sad

Gblock wrote:

stlouiedipalma wrote: I don't see the Dems losing either body in the Midterms. What I am anxious to see is how the R's will campaign using this:


"My stance on every major issue facing Americans during these past two years has been 'no'. I have had nothing whatsoever to offer up as an alternative. Vote for me and you can be assured of a 'no' vote for the length of my term as long as the Democrats control Congress."


There are no plans, no agendas, no vision to lead this country, just "no". Imagine if you will explaining to your constituency that, if elected, you will do nothing but simply vote "no" on every piece of legislation which comes down the pike. What's impressive is that there are actually people out there who are willing to have this country spin its wheels for four years just so their party might return to power.

i agree with this. it seems the GOP is willing to waste four years of our country just to get the dems out....pretty sad

That's what the people who vote for Republicans want. It doesn't matter one iota what any Republican in office says as an alternative, as long as the Dems have control it won't mean a darn thing and you know it. We need someone who will try to contain the runaway mess the Democrats are going to try to make of this country even more than it already is. Instead of worrying about the deficit or something else that will really help this country, they want to take over 1/6 of the economy and pass a multi Trillion dollar health care bill at a time when we can least afford it.

One thing is for sure -- because of the obstructionism in Congress exhibited by the Rs to a new all time low, SHOULD the Rs ever win a majority in Congress you can expect pay back in spades from the Ds. Nothing much will get done under an R controlled Congress with the Ds using the new strategy of the Rs. Its doesn't appear that will happen anytime soon and moving forward, demographics are stacked against the Rs. Its wishful thinking at best for the Rs and should they ever get lucky, payback is waiting,lol.

I think some people are misunderstanding what "opposition to the healthcare reform proposal" actually means. Many people believe healthcare does need to be reformed (myself included), but what is being proposed in Congress is not what we need. And yes, there is a majority that believe this. 53% of people surveyed in this poll are against it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Crew, I agree.

I think some sort of health insurance reformation (NOT healthcare itself) needs to take place, but this is not the answer.

Government expansion does not equal (=) reform. It just means government expansion.

CenterBHSFan wrote: Crew, I agree.

I think some sort of health insurance reformation (NOT healthcare itself) needs to take place, but this is not the answer.

Government expansion does not equal (=) reform. It just means government expansion.

You are 100% right.

Paladin wrote: One thing is for sure -- because of the obstructionism in Congress exhibited by the Rs to a new all time low, SHOULD the Rs ever win a majority in Congress you can expect pay back in spades from the Ds. Nothing much will get done under an R controlled Congress with the Ds using the new strategy of the Rs. Its doesn't appear that will happen anytime soon and moving forward, demographics are stacked against the Rs. Its wishful thinking at best for the Rs and should they ever get lucky, payback is waiting,lol.

And that, my friends, is what is wrong with Washington these days. There once was a time when both sides of the aisle worked together to solve problems and pass legislation. I think that the extreme partisanship we see today had its roots in the early 90's when Bill Clinton was President. The Gingrich-led "Contract" was the point where, in my opinion, things started getting bad. It hasn't gotten any better since then, regardless of which party controlled Congress. It seems the only recourse to getting the Dems agenda through is by reconciliation. The Republicans remember reconciliation all too well, as they used it to push Bush's tax cuts. Now it seems the pigeons have come home to roost and the Republicans are crying "foul".

tk421 wrote: Instead of worrying about the deficit or something else that will really help this country, they want to take over 1/6 of the economy and pass a multi Trillion dollar health care bill at a time when we can least afford it.

Affordability is not in the Dem lexicon when it comes to expansion of Big Government. All they care about is more control of the economy and and making sure more people are dependent upon the Greater Welfare State...which they hope ultimately leads to more votes for the Dems.

Ironically this time the idea of government mandated health care is so obviously and widely unpopular that the Dems are in serious danger of losing a hell of a lot more votes then they'd gain.

stlouiedipalma wrote:

And that, my friends, is what is wrong with Washington these days. There once was a time when both sides of the aisle worked together to solve problems and pass legislation. I think that the extreme partisanship we see today had its roots in the early 90's when Bill Clinton was President. The Gingrich-led "Contract" was the point where, in my opinion, things started getting bad. It hasn't gotten any better since then, regardless of which party controlled Congress. It seems the only recourse to getting the Dems agenda through is by reconciliation. The Republicans remember reconciliation all too well, as they used it to push Bush's tax cuts. Now it seems the pigeons have come home to roost and the Republicans are crying "foul".

Bipartisanship is good and can work when you have two sides that are reasonably in agreement that something should be done and have a framework for doing it.
That is not what we have here. It is one thing to tweak numbers about tax cuts that are reversible...another thing to create a permanent, budget busting irreversible program. You are not going to find any common ground there.
America rejected John Kerry and his brand of liberalism in 2004...in 2008 they rejected the war and economic policies of GWB. That election was not a mandate for a government explosion. Expansion of government under GWB was bad enough. The 2008 elections were not a cry for even more of it.