Series62 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote:
There is nothing about either book that warrants it being called the truth--that is to be interpreted by everyone.

But thanks Series, you've been a good sport. Over the course of this time I think I've accomplished the goal of getting you to prove my point with plenty of examples.

The only goal accomplished and point proven is that you don't except Christianity. For all those who hold to that ideology, I'm well aware that this conversation would do nothing to alter that belief.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, if they're as bat shit crazy as you, count me out of that group and I'm not really worried about what they think of me either. LOL, no offense, I don't mean to be a dick in saying that--I like you, we had a good discussion on this topic--I just think you're nuts!

SQ_Crazies wrote: I love the Bible. It's a great book of guidance and history. Just because it was hijacked as a religious basis doesn't mean it was intended for that.

CenterBHSFan wrote:

Series62 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote:
There is nothing about either book that warrants it being called the truth--that is to be interpreted by everyone.

But thanks Series, you've been a good sport. Over the course of this time I think I've accomplished the goal of getting you to prove my point with plenty of examples.

The only goal accomplished and point proven is that you don't except Christianity. For all those who hold to that ideology, I'm well aware that this conversation would do nothing to alter that belief.

QFT

If a person enters a dialogue with a willingly closed mind, the dialogue itself will not change anything.

CenterBHSFan wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: I love the Bible. It's a great book of guidance and history. Just because it was hijacked as a religious basis doesn't mean it was intended for that.

What was it intended for then?

CenterBHSFan wrote: Fair enough SQ!

Series62 wrote:

Con_Alma wrote: Gottcha.

Not Only can people find their own truth it's the only way people with find truth. We learn most effectively by experiencing and observing....not being preached to.

It's been my experience that people come to know Christ more commonly by investing in their own search for truth and by watching others around them than by people spoon feeding them information.

"Preach the Gospel at all times....when necessary use words."

I hear you!

But, on a blog what can you do but use words! I did "spoon feed" them from the best plate possible, The "Good Book"!

SQ_Crazies wrote:

Oh, ok, he spoke us to life. That makes more sense.

SQ_Crazies wrote:
God is a God of love, patience, grace, mercy and forgiveness. But woe unto those who knowingly wrongfully minister His word!

FairwoodKing wrote:

fan_from_texas wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.

I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?

Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.

You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.

Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.

I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

SQ_Crazies wrote: Well it's too bad we can't ask one of the victims of 9/11 how loving God is.

Series, have you ever studied the Koran?

FairwoodKing wrote:

fan_from_texas wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.

I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?

Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.

You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.

Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.

I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

FairwoodKing wrote:

majorspark wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.

Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

I'll bet you $50 on it.

1. If you are white, I dare you to turn black? Can't do it. No human way possible. You can't even do it for a day.

2. If you are gay, you can have a straight relationship. You may not like it but you can do it.

I hate the "born that way" excuse. Blacks are "born that way" not "homo-sexuals." Now, they may have genes/traits that trigger them liking the same sex, but these do not dictate that they can't choose the "other way."

Example: I may have genetics that would make me an alcoholic due to my ancestors. However, I can "choose" not to act on my "feelings" and do what I know is right or don't do anything at all.
Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.

If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.

enigmaax wrote: The thing that always gets me about these "beliefs" is that homosexuality is no more of a sin than any other sin. Is it unforgivable? Do they refuse to have children with divorced parents or parents who commited adultery or single parents who have sex with people? Are these "not as bad" as homosexual parents?

FairwoodKing wrote:

september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.

I will clarify:

I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.

I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.

I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.


Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.

buckeyefalls wrote:

enigmaax wrote: The thing that always gets me about these "beliefs" is that homosexuality is no more of a sin than any other sin. Is it unforgivable? Do they refuse to have children with divorced parents or parents who commited adultery or single parents who have sex with people? Are these "not as bad" as homosexual parents?

Here is a statement I support 110% If the catholic church views homo-sexuality as sin (and I do support that), then is it any different from any other "sin?"

For example, if both parents are drunks, do they keep the student out? No. Not at all. I know because I know a few families who are like that.

buckeyefalls wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote:

september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.

I will clarify:

I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.

I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.

I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.


Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.

Maybe our founding fathers knew how to keep order and live morally? Just a thought?

A gay person should be protected; however, that doesn't mean they should have rights to "marry." If they want to "unite" great, but "marriage" is a Christian term and organized by Christianity, not government.

See, you want gays to have the right to "marry" but fail to see that the tradition of a wedding comes from Christianity. How ironic is that.