down goes Florida

but only Izzo and Williams would I still include in my CURRENT top 5, and probably Boeheim.

That is two and possibly three. Which other coaches are on your list?

Azubuike24 wrote: Bottom line, the top 5 coaches argument is always heavily influenced by "what have you done for me lately" and right now, Donovan is on the bottom end of that.

But that is not how I am looking at my top 5, as evident by Ben Howland being in my top 5.

If you look at my posts about Donovan, it really has nothing about "what have you done for me now?" other than when I brought up him missing the tourney the last few years in a bad conference. Other than that, it's all about him being there for 10+ years, and outside of his great 2 years in 06 and 07, he only has ONE final four.

Azubuike24 wrote:but only Izzo and Williams would I still include in my CURRENT top 5, and probably Boeheim.

When evaluating and ranking current college coaches, you can't just look at a one-year window. If this was the case, then Jim Larranaga could have been argued onto a list like this in '06 or Billy Gillespie in '06 and '07 at Texas A&M. It is still necessary to look at a three or four season sample in order to assess consistency. Consistency says a lot about a coach, perhaps more than anything over the long run. And when looking at that three or four year sample, guys like Jim Boeheim and Jim Calhoun and Billy Donovan simply can't be added to a list of best current coaches. Boeheim went to back-to-back NITs in 2007 and 2008, Donovan is on the road to three straight and Calhoun is in the same position. Boeheim has been to more NITS than both Donovan and Calhoun combined since '97. Four. Unacceptable, no matter how great he is during the other years. Boeheim also recorded double-digit losses each season from 2006 to 2009. Does a current top coach have this on his resume?

Does a great current top coach go 16-15 and finish 10th or 11th in his conference? A year after winning the championship? With seven McDonald's All-Americans? And a preseason top four team? I realize that preseason rankings are sometimes skewed in the favor of the traditional programs, but come on. Carolina might finish below .500 this season if it "gets" an invite to the NIT or CBI. CBI. I'm obviously showing some of my hatred of Carolina here (I'm not trying to flame, UNC guys), but if Coach K isn't going to be listed on a top current coach list, then neither can Roy Williams after this season. Coach K may not have a Final Four since '04 (Boeheim doesn't have one since '03), but he does have more wins than any other coach, three 30-win seasons, three ACC titles, NCAA trips every single year, a 7-5 mark in the Big Dance, three Sweet 16s, four Top Ten finishes and has improved Duke's win total each season since '07 (22 to 28 to 30 last season).

It should also be taken into account that Coach K has led Duke to that increase in wins each season since '07 after losing the Blue Devils' best player each year. In '07, the Blue Devils lost Josh McRoberts to the pros. In '08, the Blue Devils lost all-ACC first teamer DeMarcus Nelson to graduation. In '09, the Blue Devils lost all-ACC first teamer Gerald Henderson to the NBA. That's impressive. And shows that Coach K is developing the talent on this team, something he is NEVER given credit for anymore.

I realize my Duke defense mechanisms are coming out here, but I'm just trying to understand how Coach K is left off your list, but Boeheim isn't.

SportsAndLady wrote:

cview wrote: You're a good poster, but you're missing the boat if you think Howland > Donovan.

3 Final Fours to 3 Final Fours
2 Titles to 0
5-1 Final Four record vs 1-3 Final Four record
Head to head stompings at Final Four

But Donovan does coach at Florida, so I am obligated to hate him. I wish he didn't have that resume, but he does.

I'm not saying Donovan's resume' is inferior to Howlands.

Just b/c you might have a slightly better resume', doesn't make you the better coach.

My whole argument about Donovan, is that he has over 75% of his accomplishments from one recruiting class. He made one final four outside of that recruiting class, and has missed the NCAA's on numerous occasions. Soon as he can prove he can do something w/ a team that isn't a top notch team, I will start giving him top 5 respects.

Oh, I can agree with Donovan not being top 5. I'm just saying that theres no way would I have Howland over him. JMO.

So, because Syracuse got shafted by the NCAA selection committee Boeheim is less of a coach?

As Boeheim said after not being selected in 2007,"'If 10-6 in the Big East isn't good enough to be in then I don't think we should be in the Big East.'

As for 2008, Boeheim played with less than a full deck. Andy Rautins tore an ACL before the season started and Eric Devendorf tore his ACL in mid December. Because of other injuries and player problems Syracuse ended the season with 6 scholarship players.

Coaches can't control everything

If I had to list 5 coaches I would take right now, if you combine the entire package, the list would NOT include Coach K, Jim Calhoun or Rick Pitino. They might have top 5 resumes, but they wouldn't make my list. I'd probably say...

Jim Boeheim
Roy Williams
Tom Izzo
John Calipari
Bill Self

Only Izzo, Williams and Boeheim would qualify as having a top tier resume. That was the point I was making.

Again, how can Boeheim be named and not Krzyzewski on a list of the "current best"? Especially after looking at the evidence I listed above.

I'm sorry, but listing Boeheim ahead of K is debasing the value of the list.

Boeheim is debatable, but it's more of a personal preference. Evidence and stats mean very little if we are talking who we would pick as our top 5. If this was about numbers, then there would be no opinions. So yes, it's subjective.