I truly don't think there is a great team in college basketball this season.

Pretty even field imo.

I would love to see a KU vs Syracuse matchup in the tourney. That would be a great contest could KU shoot well enough from the outside & could Syracuse matchup with KU inside. That game would be a College Basketball fans dream.

jpake1 wrote:

Laley23 wrote:

SportsAndLady wrote:

Maybe, maybe not.

I derived my comment based on a few years ago in the Final Game against a very good North Carolina team and the Championship game against Memphis, where both teams tried to run zone on KU, which worked for a few series before Bill Self put Collins into the game to get to the middle of the zone and he did so with ease...Both those teams are just as athletic as this Syracuse team, and Collins was the key factor in both those games.

He may kill the zone, but no one will ever convince me that a player or team is prepared for Syracuse's zone (aside from teams who have played it and proven to be able to handle it....ie BE teams).

The thing about Syracuse is that they recruit for the zone and play the zone the whole game. It isnt your typical zone where the cracks are there every possession. The Cuse will go several possessions in a row where the team doesnt ever get the ball off the perimiter and forces a shit shot with like 3 seconds left. They are so good and know where to be at every moment that it is rare you can get the ball in an advantageous position vs them (ie, the middle or the short corner).

With all due respect, the Cuse have lost this year and they've lost multiple games throughout the years. So yes, some teams are prepared for their zone and can beat it. The Cuse will go as far as their perimeter shooting will take them. I think they lose in the tourney when somebody has the energy and bigs down low to stop those easy buckets.

Worst. Argument. Ever.

A) I never said they cant be beat.
B) I said it was tough for ANYONE to prepare for minus the Big East teams...both loses are in BE play
C) Even if they are beat, it doesnt mean it was because the zone was beat. You beat zones by going into the middle and from the short corner OR in some cases via penetration.

I have yet to see Syracuse be beaten by the traditional way like they have sometimes in years past. If a team can hit 3s over the zone of course they can beat them (Kansas' best chance imo would be transition before the zone is set). But it is soooo tough to shoot consistently for the course of a game to beat them.

Laley23 wrote:

jpake1 wrote:

Laley23 wrote:

SportsAndLady wrote:

Maybe, maybe not.

I derived my comment based on a few years ago in the Final Game against a very good North Carolina team and the Championship game against Memphis, where both teams tried to run zone on KU, which worked for a few series before Bill Self put Collins into the game to get to the middle of the zone and he did so with ease...Both those teams are just as athletic as this Syracuse team, and Collins was the key factor in both those games.

He may kill the zone, but no one will ever convince me that a player or team is prepared for Syracuse's zone (aside from teams who have played it and proven to be able to handle it....ie BE teams).

The thing about Syracuse is that they recruit for the zone and play the zone the whole game. It isnt your typical zone where the cracks are there every possession. The Cuse will go several possessions in a row where the team doesnt ever get the ball off the perimiter and forces a shit shot with like 3 seconds left. They are so good and know where to be at every moment that it is rare you can get the ball in an advantageous position vs them (ie, the middle or the short corner).

With all due respect, the Cuse have lost this year and they've lost multiple games throughout the years. So yes, some teams are prepared for their zone and can beat it. The Cuse will go as far as their perimeter shooting will take them. I think they lose in the tourney when somebody has the energy and bigs down low to stop those easy buckets.

Worst. Argument. Ever.

A) I never said they cant be beat.
B) I said it was tough for ANYONE to prepare for minus the Big East teams...both loses are in BE play
C) Even if they are beat, it doesnt mean it was because the zone was beat. You beat zones by going into the middle and from the short corner OR in some cases via penetration.

I have yet to see Syracuse be beaten by the traditional way like they have sometimes in years past. If a team can hit 3s over the zone of course they can beat them (Kansas' best chance imo would be transition before the zone is set). But it is soooo tough to shoot consistently for the course of a game to beat them.

A. I never said you said they couldn't be beat. However, you said that you will never be convinced that a team is prepared for that zone. This is just my opinion, but when somebody beats them, I think that shows they were prepared for that zone quite well. The Cuse only have one championship in the past seeeveral years, I think more than a handful of OOC teams have been prepared for that zone. B. By the way, your went more than just saying it was tough. You said you would never be convinced any OOC team would be prepared for it. Maybe I'm thinking too much into that. C. Of course those are the obvious ways to beat the zone, and since many teams have done that to the Cuse zone, doesn't that tell you that they were prepared well to beat it? The zone is different in the college ranks because a lot of teams don't use it as a base defense. But some teams are equipped and prepared well enough to beat that zone. But since you'll never be convinced there isn't much more to talk about.

^^I was talking about this years team, not Cuse teams in general.

But past teams of Cuse can be beat even if you arent that prepared for the zone because they werent nearly as talented. This allowed for a bad zone defense as well as transition points given up.

I think if Cuse is beat this year it wont be because their zone was beat. I think it will be because their offense sputters which equates to well, less points but also transition points scored before the zone is set up. This coupled with some hot shooting during spurts in the game where the other team just shoots over the zone.


I should have been more specific in my post before. But of course a team can always be beat. But in this case it doesnt mean they beat the Cuse zone.
Ive seen Syracuse play about 15 times this year and I have never seen a zone as good as this one in my 15 years of watching college basketball. This goes back to the Syracuse zone with Anthony and Warrick down low that won the championship. This team communicates so well on defense, they just rarely give up the entry to the foul line or the short corner pass without an immediate double team trap.

Now, they can certainly be beaten, but I think it will be more because of the other factors I said than because the opponent was ready and able to conquer the Cuse zone.

This is definitely one of the better zones Syracuse has put out. It seems every player on the team knows his role within the zone and nobody is worried about being "the guy" on this team, which wasn't the case the last few seasons..

I'm really intrigued with the Orange this season and I think they have a great chance to cut down the nets in April.

The great thing about this zone is it isn't a passive one, which lets teams face single coverage throughout.. Instead, this is a rather aggressive one that traps and double teams you at just about every spot from the corners to inside the 3 point line. I love watching this defense work.

^^^Exactly. It's an extremely active zone. I've been watching Syracuse for 20 years and it's never been this good. And not saying that Bobby Knight is the final word but he said it's the best zone he's ever seen. I think that means a little something coming from someone like him.

killer_ewok wrote: ^^^Exactly. It's an extremely active zone. I've been watching Syracuse for 20 years and it's never been this good. And not saying that Bobby Knight is the final word but he said it's the best zone he's ever seen. I think that means a little something coming from someone like him.

It means more that he actually complimented a zone....in general....at all!!!

That comment comes from the man who had this to say:

Reporter: "Coach, what do you think about maybe playing a little zone next game?"
Knight: "Son, I dont speak French."

on my "main" bracket i will have CUSE winning it all. im not a fan of theirs but after watching them this year i think they have the best chance to win it all

If you asked me today, I'd pick them to at least be in the title game.

That could change but they're playing with a lot of confidence and swagger.

Their ability, or inability to make foul shots is a concern. It always has been. If Coleman converts, Syracuse beats Indiana.

Cha'DIch wrote: Their ability, or inability to make foul shots is a concern. It always has been. If Coleman converts, Syracuse beats Indiana.

Outside of Onuaku, who is one of the worst free throw shooters in NCAA history, they're not that bad. For the first time....well, maybe ever....I actually feel pretty good about Syracuse's free throw shooting unless it's Arinze I see heading to the line.

cats gone wild wrote: Possibly. I think they lose at Louisville.

cough, cough..................as I said

cats gone wild wrote:

cats gone wild wrote: Possibly. I think they lose at Louisville.

cough, cough..................as I said

Louisville was favored. You didn't really go out on a huge limb here Nostradamus.

^^LOL.

could be ten teams that could beat them

Thank you Louisville. March Madness has officially started.

I am going to maintain as I have all year, despite fluctuation in rankings, that Kansas is the best team in the country.

slingshot4ever wrote: I am going to maintain as I have all year, despite fluctuation in rankings, that Kansas is the best team in the country.

I don't disagree with that. The cool thing is though.....they can beaten as it's wide open this year. Not that it has any relevance this season but I remember past Syracuse teams upsetting national title contender Kansas teams in the NCAA's (1996, 2003).

^^^^

You just had to bring up the 03 game didn't you??? haha.

slingshot4ever wrote: ^^^^

You just had to bring up the 03 game didn't you??? haha.

But of course.

Who knew that those freshman (Warrick, Anthony and McNamara) were going to pull that off against the seniors (Heinrich and Collison)

slingshot4ever wrote: Who knew that those freshman (Warrick, Anthony and McNamara) were going to pull that off against the seniors (Heinrich and Collison)

I sure as hell didn't. Never thought they'd make it to the title game in the first place.

It depends on the game. Syracuse has a nice ball club and they play that zone as well as anyone, perhaps better, but it seems to me that there is far too much parity to declare them in a class unto themselves. They are definitely one of the major favorites going in and I think it is reasonable to expect a deep run in the tournament, or they go out like a light early. Would I rate them number one. Probably. They are as good as anyone else and clearly better than a lot. Are they unbeatable? Nope. As a quick example, the Louisville Cardinals aren't too bad either.