gibby08 wrote: Belly....so what you're saying is that if you don't serve in the military...you're a worthless person?

No...you said that
This leads me to believe you have some doubts about your own self worth.

I said ….. I was proud of who I am and what I have done and accomplished…
Can you say that?
By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

Belly35 wrote:

gibby08 wrote: Belly....so what you're saying is that if you don't serve in the military...you're a worthless person?

No...you said that
This leads me to believe you have some doubts about your own self worth.

I said ….. I was proud of who I am and what I have done and accomplished…
Can you say that?
By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

Been an educator, conduct work and research in order to improve access to information for the citizens of the United States and the world, and try to be the best person i can possibly be to those around me.

Belly35 wrote:

gibby08 wrote: Belly....so what you're saying is that if you don't serve in the military...you're a worthless person?

No...you said that
This leads me to believe you have some doubts about your own self worth.

I said ….. I was proud of who I am and what I have done and accomplished…
Can you say that?
By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

1.How does that statement have anything to do with my view of my -self-worth??

2.Volunteer my time to multiple organizations(food banks,political organizations,really too many more to name.

I gave up a $1,700 contract to coach Middle School football to go volunteer at another school Belly

So yes...I am damn proud of what I accomplished

gibby08 wrote:

Belly35 wrote:

gibby08 wrote: Belly....so what you're saying is that if you don't serve in the military...you're a worthless person?

No...you said that
This leads me to believe you have some doubts about your own self worth.

I said ….. I was proud of who I am and what I have done and accomplished…
Can you say that?
By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

1.How does that statement have anything to do with my view of my -self-worth??

2.Volunteer my time to multiple organizations(food banks,political organizations,really too many more to name.

I gave up a $1,700 contract to coach Middle School football to go volunteer at another school Belly

So yes...I am damn proud of what I accomplished

You really don't have to justify yourself anyways.

It is not a requirement that your actions serve the overall good of the country or society.

Seems strange how the "small government" people are advocating Marxist principles.

Belly35 wrote: I think a draft is a perfect idea and every able body individual should serve their country in some military manner. Don’t give that shit about I go the work and that support your country … get your fat lazy ass out there and meet the real world. Where guys from all over this great country can kick your ass in a heartbeat and you have to earn respect and define yourself as a dependable, trustworthy individual for the team and for America. Sorry I thought I was addressing a group of FNG.

Drafted, combat, wounded, disabled and scared ……… I would not change a thing
Proud, confident, educated, determined and achiever …….. Veteran
………………………….can you say that? ………………………..

That's the difference between guys like you and guys like me. I don't want respect, I don't want to define myself to anyone. Some people don't give a shit about that stuff.

great line from a Bad Religion song: I'm not respectable, never been sensible, maybe incredible, so damned irrascible. I like the things I do, so hooray for me..... and F#@% YOU!!!!!!

Belly35 wrote:

gibby08 wrote: Belly....so what you're saying is that if you don't serve in the military...you're a worthless person?

No...you said that
This leads me to believe you have some doubts about your own self worth.

I said ….. I was proud of who I am and what I have done and accomplished…
Can you say that?
By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

Been the best true American (one who advocates civil liberties and not forced military service) I can be, and that's all that matters. You being drafted and serving does not make you a better person than me, and it's very smug and arrogant to think that.

The right's hero on the draft.....


"Conscription rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state — not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers — to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn’t a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea.

America was founded on the principle of individual liberty — that the government exists to serve, not enslave, the people. Yet conscription is a form of slavery, a horrible and costly exception to America’s founding principle. It is morally repugnant to the ideals of a free society.

Without the draft, unpopular wars are very difficult to fight. The ability to use conscription actually encourages politicians to wage even more wars — the massive resources are a temptation that is hard for the war-lover to resist. When the draft was finally undermined in the 1970s, for example, the Vietnam War ended. "

Nazi'!!!! Nazi's!!!!!

Could one of you please .....highlight...... in my comment where I state I was better that you or anyone else? I’m proud of who I am .... That seemed to stir some emotional feeling within your ego flaw.

Nice to see some of you FH sharing your worldly deeds and humbling serve.

Belly35 wrote: Could one of you please .....highlight...... in my comment where I state I was better that you or anyone else? I’m proud of who I am .... That seemed to stir some emotional feeling within your ego flaw.

Nice to see some of you FH sharing your worldly deeds and humbling serve.

"By the way what have you done to serve your country or society?

I think a draft is a perfect idea and every able body individual should serve their country in some military manner. Don’t give that shit about I go the work and that support your country … get your fat lazy ass out there and meet the real world."


Those are your words.

What your posts imply is quite clear. Not really all that difficult to tell that you think the only and best way to serve your country (as if we have some sort of Socialistic obligation to serve the country) is the best way to give back.

Belly35 wrote: Could one of you please .....highlight...... in my comment where I state I was better that you or anyone else? I’m proud of who I am .... That seemed to stir some emotional feeling within your ego flaw.

Nice to see some of you FH sharing your worldly deeds and humbling serve.

Could you please......highlight........what is is........you're attempting to say........it's difficult to understands you.........when........you speak........in broken English...........?

And I'd really like someone to rationalize their views on small government, yet still wanting to force everyone to serve. You realize that's a greater example (and a huge monetary commitment) of the government intruding on people's freedom than the stuff you guys cry about Obama doing all day?

The draft doesn't work anyway. People like Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh had no problem in skirting their patriotic duties.

When the Nam conscription initially kicked in, all one had to do was sign up for college. When that deferment was rightfully challenged, then Nixon rightfully ended that war.

Hilarious that Belly is a socialist.

I Wear Pants wrote: Hilarious that Belly is a socialist.

A socialist, statist, and marxist. First he says the government should tell me what to do with my life, then says we need to serve for the good of the state, and then claims we need to serve for the good of the society.

Strange mixture.

eersandbeers wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Hilarious that Belly is a socialist.

A socialist, statist, and marxist. First he says the government should tell me what to do with my life, then says we need to serve for the good of the state, and then claims we need to serve for the good of the society.

Strange mixture.

FH are to take eersandbeers serious who avatar is of Iran Socialist President Ahmadinejad. Is that your hero?
Anyone that admire leader like that ……displays it as his Avatar ……is a joke
You’re asking FH to believe, except and agree with you and some of stupid FH has taken the bait from this guy who ideas are the same as Ahmadinejad.
WOW call me what you want but look who waving the Socialism Flag in your face….and you’re to stupid to see it………

He can use his education, better grammar and his knowledge of political quotes to influence you ….. Are you influenced now…..

Belly35 wrote:

eersandbeers wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Hilarious that Belly is a socialist.

A socialist, statist, and marxist. First he says the government should tell me what to do with my life, then says we need to serve for the good of the state, and then claims we need to serve for the good of the society.

Strange mixture.

FH are to take eersandbeers serious who avatar is of Iran Socialist President Ahmadinejad. Is that your hero?
Anyone that admire leader like that ……displays it as his Avatar ……is a joke
You’re asking FH to believe, except and agree with you and some of stupid FH has taken the bait from this guy who ideas are the same as Ahmadinejad.
WOW call me what you want but look who waving the Socialism Flag in your face….and you’re to stupid to see it………

He can use his education, better grammar and his knowledge of political quotes to influence you ….. Are you influenced now…..

I have Ahmadinejad as my avatar because he looks like an idiot with those glasses on. I thought it was a funny picture. Not all that difficult to understand.

The rest of your rant did not once address the points I put forth. They did not address how your hypocritical stance for small government and somehow want the government to enslave American citizens for 2 years of their life.

Belly35 wrote: I think a draft is a perfect idea and every able body individual should serve their country in some military manner.

So you believe in forcing your will on people? That is not very American of you.

Belly35 wrote:Don’t give that shit about I go the work and that support your country … get your fat lazy ass out there and meet the real world. Where guys from all over this great country can kick your ass in a heartbeat and you have to earn respect and define yourself as a dependable, trustworthy individual for the team and for America. Sorry I thought I was addressing a group of FNG.

I'm not sure I quite understand what it is you're trying to say in this quote. Are you being sarcastic?

Belly35 wrote:Drafted, combat, wounded, disabled and scared ……… I would not change a thing
Proud, confident, educated, determined and achiever …….. Veteran
………………………….can you say that? ………………………..

I can say that I am a veteran and was in combat. I can't say that I was drafted or wounded. I also can say that I am proud, confident, educated, determied and an achiever.

Belly35 wrote: Could one of you please .....highlight...... in my comment where I state I was better that you or anyone else? I’m proud of who I am .... That seemed to stir some emotional feeling within your ego flaw.

Nice to see some of you FH sharing your worldly deeds and humbling serve.

Are you not doing the same thing?

You are correct, you did not come out and say you are better than others, but your original post was very condescending. Example:

"Don’t give that shit about I go the work and that support your country … get your fat lazy ass out there and meet the real world."

Belly35 wrote:

eersandbeers wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Hilarious that Belly is a socialist.

A socialist, statist, and marxist. First he says the government should tell me what to do with my life, then says we need to serve for the good of the state, and then claims we need to serve for the good of the society.

Strange mixture.

FH are to take eersandbeers serious who avatar is of Iran Socialist President Ahmadinejad. Is that your hero?
Anyone that admire leader like that ……displays it as his Avatar ……is a joke
You’re asking FH to believe, except and agree with you and some of stupid FH has taken the bait from this guy who ideas are the same as Ahmadinejad.
WOW call me what you want but look who waving the Socialism Flag in your face….and you’re to stupid to see it………

He can use his education, better grammar and his knowledge of political quotes to influence you ….. Are you influenced now…..

I think you know better than to believe eersandbeers ideas are the same as Ahmadinejad. You have been called out on how your views are contradictory to each other.

When you consistently post on here about limiting the size of government and less government intervention in our daily lives (which I agree with you on that issue) then when you say you believe that people should be forced to serve is a hypocritical statement.

1) A draft imposes the government's will on the citizens, when it should be the other way around.

2) If people were drafted and service was mandatory, it would increase our military size (and budget) 20 fold.

This goes against the principles you claim to stand for on this forum.

Given the history of participation and activism in this country, we do not need to really institute a draft. The military does not really need one anyways, as they are strictly opposed to it and their current needs are largely met.

Also, technology now a days has allowed the U.S. military to do more with less manpower, as the notion of foot soldiers, while still needed in some areas, is not the dominate focus as it once was. Just look at the numbers of troops needed to complete missions in Vietnam and Iraq, quite different as the military has updated tactics and strategies wit new technologies. (Granted the wars are different in nature, but the point remains that technology has allowed less troops in harms way)

Furthermore, I'm with the posters that believe the military should be a choice, not a requirement. While the military does teach valuable tools in life, it is simply not for everyone. Citizens can contribute and defend the country in other ways. I'm an example. I've never served, but moved to DC to focus on foreign policy, defense issues and nuclear weapons in the NGO/Think tank and civilian aspect of government.

I don't really like the idea. Why don't we institute mandatory public service for several years for people 50-55? They should have plenty of savings by that point, and if they're on top of their game, they could really do a great job giving back to the country. Besides, it's not like the 25 year olds ran up the massive debt--that's on the short-sighted me-first baby boomers.

"that's on the short-sighted me-first baby boomers."

A little digression from the conversation, but when I see the term "short-sighted" my ears (or eyes in this instance) perk up, it is without a doubt IMO the best word to describe what got this country in the shape its in. Being short-sighted in focus. Last weekend we were at a dinner party with many pro-Obama, very liberal friends and they said the same thing, we're being short-sighted. If nothing else the economic situation has stopped one of the nuttier of Obama's campaigning points of starting a "forced" civil volunteering system for young people, as if they won't have enough to deal with in the next several years that they need to volunteer to be a citizen in a country that has saddled them with backbreaking debt. One short anecdote - I run sprints at a local city high school track and there is a billboard just outside the school grounds sponsored by the Virginia Education Association (the local school union) that shows a few kids with frowns on their faces with the title "Why Are You Cheating Us?" in response to recent budget cuts. As I told my wife, they are cheated one way or the other, now with cuts or later with the debt they will have to deal with.

that's on the short-sighted me-first baby boomers.

They're going to get theirs when their kids and grandkids generations slash their benefits because we don't feel like living in a society that requires 90% taxation across the board to fund the entitlements they gave themselves while never bothering to properly fund them.

Generational warfare is coming to America in the next few decades, and it is not going to be pretty.

It wouldn't matter if they did reinstate the draft. Everyone would just claim to be gay and would be deferred!

Belly35 wrote: He can use his education, better grammar and his knowledge of political quotes to influence you ….. Are you influenced now…..

Wait, is having an education, using proper grammar, and being knowledgeable of what politicians say a negative thing now? Because that seems to be what you're implying.