Intelligent Design: Viable Theory or Religious Rewording?

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bigmanbt

Senior Member

258 posts
Mar 8, 2010 10:46 AM
jmog wrote: origins is (right now) a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one.
I agree with this, until there is a day when science can prove it. That day may never come however. No problem with ID and religion being philosophical classes, where they aren't necessarily taught as true but rather ways of life.
Mar 8, 2010 10:46am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 10:53 AM
bigmanbt wrote:
jmog wrote: origins is (right now) a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one.
I agree with this, until there is a day when science can prove it. That day may never come however. No problem with ID and religion being philosophical classes, where they aren't necessarily taught as true but rather ways of life.
Unfortunately right now, origins is still taught in science as fact, Big Bang, abiogenesis, etc.
Mar 8, 2010 10:53am
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
Mar 8, 2010 10:58 AM
jmog wrote:
bigmanbt wrote:
jmog wrote: origins is (right now) a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one.
I agree with this, until there is a day when science can prove it. That day may never come however. No problem with ID and religion being philosophical classes, where they aren't necessarily taught as true but rather ways of life.
Unfortunately right now, origins is still taught in science as fact, Big Bang, abiogenesis, etc.
I have no problem with either of those being taught in science class, but i think they need to do a better job explaining that there are other alternative theories and how the scientific method is being applied to support them.
Mar 8, 2010 10:58am
P

Paladin

Senior Member

313 posts
Mar 8, 2010 11:12 AM
Paladin is not humiliated. Just stating his opinion. I take comfort in that the way the world works, science is in the classroom and religion is in Sunday school, as it should be. No matter how hard they try or their B.S. they spill, the IDer's, Young earth kooks,etc remain a decided small minority in society. All attempts to discredit science and impose ID in school gets beat down.

Its a great day !!:p
Mar 8, 2010 11:12am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 11:21 AM
Paladin wrote: Paladin is not humiliated. Just stating his opinion. I take comfort in that the way the world works, science is in the classroom and religion is in Sunday school, as it should be. No matter how hard they try or their B.S. they spill, the IDer's, Young earth kooks,etc remain a decided small minority in society. All attempts to discredit science and impose ID in school gets beat down.

Its a great day !!:p
1. You continue to make yourself look like a "kook" and a "zealot" with your blind hatred.

2. You might be surprised that your belief that it is a "decidedly small minority" that believe there is some force or "god" that created things in the beginning is NOT a minority. Matter of fact, the below washington post story states that a poll of Americans says that 92% of American's believe in "God or a universal spirit" -- including one in five of those who call themselves atheists.

The "decided" minority might just be those who don't believe in some sort of "intelligence" out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html
Mar 8, 2010 11:21am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Mar 8, 2010 11:47 AM
It's not the belief in an overwhelming intelligence outside the universe that I can't accept.

It's the belief in an overwhelming intelligence here on earth that I can't accept.
Mar 8, 2010 11:47am
C

cbus4life

Ignorant

2,849 posts
Mar 8, 2010 12:36 PM
Do you guys think God created life on other planets, in other parts of the universe? Honestly curious and love thinking about the possibility! Do you think they look like us? Would be hillarious to show up in heaven and see a bunch of talking donkeys.
Mar 8, 2010 12:36pm
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O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM
cbus4life wrote: Do you guys think God created life on other planets, in other parts of the universe? Honestly curious and love thinking about the possibility!
I love to wonder about this as well. He doesn't say, so it fills me with such wonder to consider it. :D
cbus4life wrote:Would be hillarious to show up in heaven and see a bunch of talking donkeys.
I dunno if that would be all that big a deal. I mean I see talking asses on earth all the time. ;)
Mar 8, 2010 12:41pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 1:18 PM
I wonder why no aircraft have ever ran into Heaven?? Or maybe that's what happened to Columbia...or maybe Heaven is located above the Bermuda Triangle.

Mar 8, 2010 1:18pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 2:07 PM
ManO'War wrote: I wonder why no aircraft have ever ran into Heaven?? Or maybe that's what happened to Columbia...or maybe Heaven is located above the Bermuda Triangle.

Is that even a serious question? Or are you just trying to act like a smart ass?

Let's take it at face value. Some Christians believe heaven is a real physical place while others believe its a spiritual (aka non-physical) place.

Whichever one is "correct" your question can be logically answered. If its a spiritual place only, then the answer is obvious.

If its a physical place then possibly its so far out in the universe that even we haven't seen it with all of our telescopes yet.
Mar 8, 2010 2:07pm
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ManO'War

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1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:05 PM
But the Bible depicts it in the clouds....above earth.

That's the problem with religion, they change the story everytime one of them gets shot down. Back then nobody could reach the clouds, so they put Heaven up there. As soon as man reached the clouds, then it became a "non-physical" place.

It's all a shell game.
Mar 8, 2010 3:05pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:09 PM
ManO'War wrote: But the Bible depicts it in the clouds....above earth.

That's the problem with religion, they change the story everytime one of them gets shot down. Back then nobody could reach the clouds, so they put Heaven up there. As soon as man reached the clouds, then it became a "non-physical" place.

It's all a shell game.
Show me one verse where the Bible says heaven (God's dwelling place) is "in the clouds".

I'd love to see it, as a student of the Bible.
Mar 8, 2010 3:09pm
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ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:18 PM
I'm not a student of the bible, but every pic that I've ever seen was of heaven in the clouds.

And why would a god need a dwelling place?!?!
Mar 8, 2010 3:18pm
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O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:26 PM
ManO'War wrote: I'm not a student of the bible, but every pic that I've ever seen was of heaven in the clouds.
So, when you said that "the Bible depicts it on the clouds," you admit you weren't speaking of something you know.

All the Bible ever says about heaven is that it is "up." Doesn't specify physicality or spirituality.
ManO'War wrote:And why would a god need a dwelling place?!?!
Why must him having one mean he needs one?

Do you have things you don't need?
Mar 8, 2010 3:26pm
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ManO'War

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1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:28 PM
I just did a quick google search....and it came up with this. I guess heaven is in the clouds, lol.

http://www.crosswalk.com/spirituallife/11558134/


BTW, why would I become a student of a book of fairytales??? It's like becoming a "student" of Mother Goose.
Mar 8, 2010 3:28pm
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CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:37 PM
In these final chapters we are told there will be three heavens.
The first heaven will include the atmosphere including the clouds and oxygen we breathe.
What this means to me is that we will have air.

I think the popular "picture" we see of Heaven is mostly artwork made during the Golden Age/Renaissance era.
Just like the famous picture of Jesus knocking at the door. We see a definite Anglo-European visage of interpretation.
In other words, we see what the artist envisions, not exactly what is described in the Bible.
Mar 8, 2010 3:37pm
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ManO'War

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1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:42 PM
You need air in heaven???
Mar 8, 2010 3:42pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 3:54 PM
ManO'War wrote: You need air in heaven???
Can you even have a serious conversation about this or you plan on acting like an 8 year old the whole time?


Some interpretations of the "3 heavens" in the Bible is that in 1611 when the Bible was first translated into English we didn't have or didn't know the correct translations for the 3 different hebrew/greek words so we translated them all "heaven".

Many scholars believe the "3 heavens" are

Heaven 1-what we now call our atmosphere around the Earth.
Heaven 2-the universe, stars, planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc.
Heaven 3-God's dwelling place, whether physical or spiritual, the "heaven" we think of when we hear the word.
Mar 8, 2010 3:54pm
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pmoney25

Senior Member

1,787 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:01 PM
ManO'War wrote: I just did a quick google search....and it came up with this. I guess heaven is in the clouds, lol.

http://www.crosswalk.com/spirituallife/11558134/


BTW, why would I become a student of a book of fairytales??? It's like becoming a "student" of Mother Goose.
Your last statement makes no sense. If I came on here quoting mother goose like I knew what I was talking about but was completely making up false statements, I would still look like an idiot. You can't just make up facts to fit your arguement. You don't have to be a student of anything but you at least have to tell the truth when debating someone.

You are getting destroyed on this thread. There are Athiest who form great arguements and debates and then there are those that read the cliff notes version and spout off 3rd grade level atheism bulletpoints.
Mar 8, 2010 4:01pm
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ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:13 PM
I don't need any bullet points.

There is no real argument, since the basis of your "belief" is a book of made up stories.

That's what makes the whole thing so comical, that people have actually been brainwashed into believing this crap like it is real, and then base their whole lives around it.

Once you cut out all the BS, the whole thing boils down to this: Do you believe that there is an invisible man (or woman, or whatever) in the sky (or wherever) that made everything, and actually cares what we, as humans, do? That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

I do not.
Mar 8, 2010 4:13pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:16 PM
ManO'War wrote: I don't need any bullet points.

There is no real argument, since the basis of your "belief" is a book of made up stories.

That's what makes the whole thing so comical, that people have actually been brainwashed into believing this crap like it is real, and then base their whole lives around it.
Please show proof that this book is all a group of "made up stories".

There are many MANY parts of the Bible, even though it wasn't meant to be a historical document, that has been proven to be true through archeology.

You made a claim, the burden of proof is on you. Show me how you know for a fact that its a book of made up stories.
Mar 8, 2010 4:16pm
C

cbus4life

Ignorant

2,849 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:19 PM
I find both sides of the debate hard to reconcile.

On one hand, it is hard to believe that one supernatural being created all of this. I mean, my god! How could one God have the power to give human beings the ability to create the shamwow and snuggie!

But, on the other hand, it is hard to believe that our earth, humankind, the animal world, etc., all the complexities of earth and the universe, could have just been created as a result of a "bang."

I guess i would fall somewhere in the middle, but that doesn't make much sense either! :D

One of the most interesting, and unanswerable, questions, we'll ever encounter.

Fun to think about and ponder, though.
Mar 8, 2010 4:19pm
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pmoney25

Senior Member

1,787 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:20 PM
Well what do you believe happened?

You really have two answers for this, I am guessing you will say you don't know or that the Universe Randomly appeared out of thin air for no reason and out of all the known universe the only place where the conditions were perfect enough for intelligent life was one litte planet.

When you really think about it, Does one answer sound anymore crazy then the other?
Mar 8, 2010 4:20pm
C

cbus4life

Ignorant

2,849 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:38 PM
pmoney25 wrote: Well what do you believe happened?

You really have two answers for this, I am guessing you will say you don't know or that the Universe Randomly appeared out of thin air for no reason and out of all the known universe the only place where the conditions were perfect enough for intelligent life was one litte planet.

When you really think about it, Does one answer sound anymore crazy then the other?
Um, i don't know if you got all of that out of my post, but i was basically saying that they are both really hard to reconcile. I don't know, i honestly don't. Guess i just don't have the faith.

I don't know what happened. I don't have the faith or knowledge to go one way or another.

How did you get that i would say that the universe would randomly appear, when i basically said how that didn't seem plausible either.

Or, is this not directed at me? :D
Mar 8, 2010 4:38pm
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CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 8, 2010 4:54 PM
cbus4life wrote: One of the most interesting, and unanswerable, questions, we'll ever encounter.

Fun to think about and ponder, though.

I agree!

There's not a day that goes by that I don't stop and think about something pertaining to God or my faith or my old religion (Methodist).
I haven't practiced a religion in years.
Sometimes I miss the community of a church, and then I think again and find that I don't miss it all that much afterall.

We'll never know until we kick off!
Mar 8, 2010 4:54pm