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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Feb 15, 2010 3:46pm
I guess if 1 win per year is considered good.SQ_Crazies wrote: No one in NASCAR history has had as much pressure as Jr. You have to give him some credit there--people that discredit his talent, IMO, can't be real NASCAR fans. He's been a pretty good driver for quite a few years.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 3:50pm
Of course he has pressure put on him. He knew that when he wanted into the sport. Just b/c of his name. As for the talent..he's finished in the Top 10 in the final standings ONCE in the last 5 years. He's won ONE race since June 16, 2008. Yes..stellar numbers for a good driver. Average..yes. Good..yes..anytime before 2005.SQ_Crazies wrote: No one in NASCAR history has had as much pressure as Jr. You have to give him some credit there--people that discredit his talent, IMO, can't be real NASCAR fans. He's been a pretty good driver for quite a few years.
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 15, 2010 3:53pm
I don't have a problem with Jr. being popular, but his fans have no reason to hype him as the best. I'm a blue duece guy and I'll admit that Kurt is top 10 at best among active drivers. Jr. fans have no perspective, they think he's the best when he clearly isn't.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 4:09pm
Agree completely j..I don't dislike Jr b/c of Jr..I can't stand him b/c of the obnoxious "Jr Nation". They act like he's the 2nd coming of NASCAR and the guy hasn't done anything. I think Kurt's a Top 5 though..I'd put Johnson, Smoke, Gordon, Martin in front of him...then for that 5th spot..it's a toss up between many drivers..including Kurt.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Feb 15, 2010 4:11pm
Who the fuck ever hypes him as the best? LMAO, you're stretching there...again, maybe before '05. No one has said anything like that in years. If you don't think he's a good driver then you don't pay attention and your list of good drivers can only really contain 2 or 3 names.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Feb 15, 2010 4:12pm
LMAO! Kurt isn't as good as his brother...top 5, haha. Aren't you now doing exactly what you hate "Jr Nation" for?GoChiefs wrote: Agree completely j..I don't dislike Jr b/c of Jr..I can't stand him b/c of the obnoxious "Jr Nation". They act like he's the 2nd coming of NASCAR and the guy hasn't done anything. I think Kurt's a Top 5 though..I'd put Johnson, Smoke, Gordon, Martin in front of him...then for that 5th spot..it's a toss up between many drivers..including Kurt.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 4:22pm
I REALLY hope you're joking! Every weeks..it's "Jr's still the best..he just had bad luck b/c of *insert excuse here*..it wasn't HIS fault."SQ_Crazies wrote: Who the fuck ever hypes him as the best? LMAO, you're stretching there...again, maybe before '05.
No..you've never heard me say Kurt is the best driver in NASCAR. So I'm not doing what I hate on 'Jr Nation' for. Kurt is arguably a Top 5 driver..like I said..there is 4 that are clearly ahead of him..then there is at least another 5 or 6 drivers you could argue for the 5th spot..with Kurt being one of them. There is nothing false about that. Kyle finished 13th in points last year..Kurt finished 5th. Sure..Kyle had more wins..but I'll take consistent Top 5's over wins any day of the week.SQ_Crazies wrote: LMAO! Kurt isn't as good as his brother...top 5, haha. Aren't you now doing exactly what you hate "Jr Nation" for?
Speedofsand
Posts: 5,529
Feb 15, 2010 4:37pm
Jr's charge to the front at the end of the 500 was impressive.
It takes balls to drive like that after the wreck he had the day before.
1 win a year is good in Nascar. 36 races, 43 drivers. That is beating the odds.
Winning a Nascar race is like having 42 wins and 0 losses on the season that day.
It takes balls to drive like that after the wreck he had the day before.
1 win a year is good in Nascar. 36 races, 43 drivers. That is beating the odds.
Winning a Nascar race is like having 42 wins and 0 losses on the season that day.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 4:39pm
But..he didn't have a win last year or 2007. 
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 15, 2010 4:48pm
SQ you must be joking. I can go to my facebook news feed and pull up to 20 "Jr. back" "Jr. still the best" or similar posts right now.
my question is always "back from what?" he was mediocre at best the last 4 years and had 3 years of really good, but not great, before that.
like i said, you like who you like, but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Jr.'s not the best.
For the record my ranking of the active drivers:
1. JJ
2. Gordon
3. Stewart
4. Martin
5. Kenseth
6. J. Burton
7. Edwards
8. Kurt Busch
9. Biffle
10. Kyle Busch
11. Bowyer
12. Hamlin
13. Harvick
14. Jr.
15. Newman
my question is always "back from what?" he was mediocre at best the last 4 years and had 3 years of really good, but not great, before that.
like i said, you like who you like, but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Jr.'s not the best.
For the record my ranking of the active drivers:
1. JJ
2. Gordon
3. Stewart
4. Martin
5. Kenseth
6. J. Burton
7. Edwards
8. Kurt Busch
9. Biffle
10. Kyle Busch
11. Bowyer
12. Hamlin
13. Harvick
14. Jr.
15. Newman
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 4:50pm
Those were exactly the six I figured you could argue for any of them to be Top 5.j_crazy wrote: 5. Kenseth
6. J. Burton
7. Edwards
8. Kurt Busch
9. Biffle
10. Kyle Busch
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Feb 15, 2010 4:57pm
Bullshit. Do we need to whip out stats from good drivers?Speedofsand wrote:
1 win a year is good in Nascar. 36 races, 43 drivers. That is beating the odds.
Winning a Nascar race is like having 42 wins and 0 losses on the season that day.
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 15, 2010 4:58pm
also i just put bowyer ahead of Jr. because his name came to mind when I was thinking of guys I'd rather put in my car than Jr. so I went and checked, bowyer might be top 10 on my list now. 2 top 5 finishes in the chase, that's pretty damn good.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Feb 15, 2010 5:02pm
LOL, I was just about to say...BOWYER?! Now you're really stretching.
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 15, 2010 5:02pm
also, i'm over Jr. being so angry/short with the media.
like yesterday when DW asked him a question about the car being fast and him running good and he says "you serious?" then dead air.
like yesterday when DW asked him a question about the car being fast and him running good and he says "you serious?" then dead air.
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pkebker
Posts: 760
Feb 15, 2010 5:03pm
How can you guys consider Gordon as still one of the top drivers in Nascar, he has been almost as bad as Jr. in recent years. Very few wins recently, and like Jr., he just hasn't seemed to figure out the COT.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 5:08pm
:huh: Gordon's finishes the last 4 years...3rd, 7th, 2nd, and 6th. Like I said..I'll take consistency over wins any day of the week. Gordon is still definitely one of the Top 3 drivers in the sport. Behind only Jimmie Johnson and MAYBE Smoke. I would probably even put him ahead of Stewart.pkebker wrote: How can you guys consider Gordon as still one of the top drivers in Nascar, he has been almost as bad as Jr. in recent years. Very few wins recently, and like Jr., he just hasn't seemed to figure out the COT.
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 15, 2010 5:08pm
this is true. I admit i give him more of a pass for past success than i give to Jr.
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Eric Taylor
Posts: 602
Feb 15, 2010 5:11pm
I am still scratching my head as to how bad Smoke's car was yesterday.
He started off running well, but fell to the middle of the pack and couldnt do much after that.
At least he has won the Nationwide Race 3 years in a row and 5 of the last 6.
He started off running well, but fell to the middle of the pack and couldnt do much after that.
At least he has won the Nationwide Race 3 years in a row and 5 of the last 6.
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pkebker
Posts: 760
Feb 15, 2010 5:27pm
He'll be top 5 of all time...but he's not that good anymore. Johnson, Stewart, Edwards, Ky Busch, Hamlin, Martin have all been much better drivers than Gordon in the past few years...GoChiefs wrote::huh: Gordon's finishes the last 4 years...3rd, 7th, 2nd, and 6th. Like I said..I'll take consistency over wins any day of the week. Gordon is still definitely one of the Top 3 drivers in the sport. Behind only Jimmie Johnson and MAYBE Smoke. I would probably even put him ahead of Stewart.pkebker wrote: How can you guys consider Gordon as still one of the top drivers in Nascar, he has been almost as bad as Jr. in recent years. Very few wins recently, and like Jr., he just hasn't seemed to figure out the COT.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Feb 15, 2010 5:35pm
His finishes in the standings every year argue that. You don't finish in the Top 5 by not being that good anymore.pkebker wrote: He'll be top 5 of all time...but he's not that good anymore. Johnson, Stewart, Edwards, Ky Busch, Hamlin, Martin have all been much better drivers than Gordon in the past few years...
coyotes22
Posts: 11,298
Feb 15, 2010 5:54pm
I dont think Jr is the greatest driver ever. But, I will always be a fan of his. I have been since I started watching NASCAR. I also think that he is one of only a handfull of drivers that all 42 divers respect.
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pkebker
Posts: 760
Feb 15, 2010 7:17pm
1 win in a COT. With the Chase format it isn't hard to finish high. Hell Bowyer finished 3rd a few years ago, was he really the 3rd best driver that season? no way. If a driver makes the chase, he only has to be consistent for 10 races. He should easily finish in the chase each year with the quality equipment he is driving in. But he no longer is a top 5 driver any more, borderline top 10, I'd probably leave him out of the top 10 even.GoChiefs wrote:His finishes in the standings every year argue that. You don't finish in the Top 5 by not being that good anymore.pkebker wrote: He'll be top 5 of all time...but he's not that good anymore. Johnson, Stewart, Edwards, Ky Busch, Hamlin, Martin have all been much better drivers than Gordon in the past few years...
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pkebker
Posts: 760
Feb 15, 2010 7:19pm
I'm not sure Kyle Busch respects Jr. lol, but the other 41 do...coyotes22 wrote: I dont think Jr is the greatest driver ever. But, I will always be a fan of his. I have been since I started watching NASCAR. I also think that he is one of only a handfull of drivers that all 42 divers respect.
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Gardens35
Posts: 4,929
Feb 15, 2010 7:23pm
Clint Bowyer. Last year he was running a Nationwide Race and got wrecked out by one of the Nationwide guys(can't remember who it was). During the post-crash interview he was a bit upset and said something pompous along the lines of "Now we know why (insert the other drivers name here) is driving Nationwide cars." .....duh, so are you Bowyer.
BTW, Bobby Labonte is one of the best out there. Think about it.