bman618 wrote: Can I point out we went into Iraq not to build a democracy but to get Saddam for having WMDs - lie - and working with Al-Qaeda - lie? This building a democracy goal was crap used by the Neo-Cons after their lies were exposed. The Iraq War was one of the biggest blunders in American history as it clinched imperial overstretch and will be one of the contributing factors to our upcoming bankruptcy.

Bush and Obama will go down as two of the worst presidents in our history.

Yes, the main reason for the war was proven false. But, what emerged form us staying was to build a new democracy.

In addition, the idea of democracy promotion through regime change was echoed in the 2002 National Security Strategy and by members of the administration. When the main reason for war fell through, the argument that force will breed democracy came in to take its place. The success of that strategy is up in the air.

But, we are there now as to not allow the state to fall apart and to hopefully make a solid democracy in the region.

Footwedge wrote: Bush is the worst president I've ever been alive for.

I didn't realize you were so young. Give Obama a chance he has only been president for a year.

Footwedge wrote:Bush is the worst president I've ever been alive for.

That must make you less than 30 because I can tell you without a doubt that living through the Carter Era was painful....BHO is on-track to be worse.

Presidential rankings (first to worst) in my lifetime:

1. Ronald Reagan

2. Dwight Eisenhower

3. Richard Nixon
4. George HW Bush
5. JFK

6. George W. Bush
7. LBJ

8. Gerald Ford

9. Billy Boy Clinton


10. Barrack Hussein Obama



11. Jimmy Carter

ccrunner609 wrote:

bman618 wrote: It stays open. Bush's foreign policy largely continues.

Is that a bad thing? Obamas isnt working well. Closing Gitmo going to be the straw that breaks the Camels back in 2012.


Already proven that these war terrorists, enemies of the state are going right back to doing what they do.

Yes, it is a bad thing. That one of probably 8 of the worst years foreign policy wise in our country's history.

How isn't it working? I haven't seen any failures in Obama's foreign policy up to this point.

And if we release people who are guilty then it is a failure of our intelligence process. That does not justify keeping those who may be innocent.

ccrunner609 wrote: Obama hasnt done anything yet, unless you want to count bowing to a foreign leader and apoligizing numerous times.

Again, you don't get it. Foreign policy takes time. Things do not happen overnight. So, the statement, "He hasn't done anything" completely ignores the process of foreign policy and the review and implementation of policy.

It took Reagan years before he got his polices going, HW Bush not till 90, even that changed in 91. Clinton not until 93, and W Bush not till mid 2002.

Also, bowing to leaders, really? In the grad scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
Apologizing? Really? References and example? Are you referring to his Noble Speech, cause that wasn't apologetic.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Apologizing? Really? References and example?

BHO apologetics
just thinking
not good

believer wrote:

ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Apologizing? Really? References and example?

BHO apologetics
just thinking
not good

1st Link is Heritage, a notorious conservative think tank. That is like someone using the Huffington Post to prove a point. But, where in the article was he wrong? The U.S. has not been a perfect country (Slavery, Jim Crow, exploiting 3rd world countries, overthrowing governments,etc) Ignoring and not acknowledging it is arrogant and stupid. I see nothing wrong with those statements. We, like humanity, make mistakes, and we move on.

2nd link, American Thinker-See above, awful reference. Also, the piece is just takes his speeches to an extreme. It is simply the same as the radical left vilifying W during his speeches.

3rd link, Obama did not apologize for Hiroshima, nor to Europe for the Cold War, nor to Iraqis on the mistakes made once we were involved. Also, the record on information from Gitmo is simply not known, as it is classified. So, stating it has worked could be factually off.


Again, I see no apologizing, I see a realistic outlook at our history and were we need to go forward. Ignoring our mixed past does not serve us well going forward. We are a great country, the best, but not perfect and the President is stating our record. We are still that shining city on a hill, but also must acknowledge that the city is not perfect.

I'd like a little proof on Obama being a muslim. muslims don't go to Christian churches on a weekly basis.

Go ahead..google, google...dogpyle, dogpyle. In the big bad world of the internet, you will post not one thing showing Obama as a Muslim. He does not pray to Allah..he prays to Jesus...because he is Christian.

I see the rules over here are slacking off a tad. I thought "factual statements" required proof sources. I know that I always provide proof sources on anything that I post.

Footwedge wrote:I'd like a little proof on Obama being a muslim. muslims don't go to Christian churches on a weekly basis.

True. Jeremiah Wright can attest to the authenticity of BHO's religious status.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote:

believer wrote:

ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Apologizing? Really? References and example?

BHO apologetics
just thinking
not good

1st Link is Heritage, a notorious conservative think tank. That is like someone using the Huffington Post to prove a point. But, where in the article was he wrong? The U.S. has not been a perfect country (Slavery, Jim Crow, exploiting 3rd world countries, overthrowing governments,etc) Ignoring and not acknowledging it is arrogant and stupid. I see nothing wrong with those statements. We, like humanity, make mistakes, and we move on.

2nd link, American Thinker-See above, awful reference. Also, the piece is just takes his speeches to an extreme. It is simply the same as the radical left vilifying W during his speeches.

3rd link, Obama did not apologize for Hiroshima, nor to Europe for the Cold War, nor to Iraqis on the mistakes made once we were involved. Also, the record on information from Gitmo is simply not known, as it is classified. So, stating it has worked could be factually off.


Again, I see no apologizing, I see a realistic outlook at our history and were we need to go forward. Ignoring our mixed past does not serve us well going forward. We are a great country, the best, but not perfect and the President is stating our record. We are still that shining city on a hill, but also must acknowledge that the city is not perfect.

Well said, Ptown.

jmog wrote:

cbus4life wrote:

ccrunner609 wrote: Hell we hire a muslim president and they still attack us. I thought he would get all his bretheren to settle down

This is the most idiotic post i've ever seen.

1.) We elected him, we didn't hire him.

2.) He isn't muslim.

3.) It is "brethren."

No, actually you just gave the most idiotic post since you didn't sense the OBVIOUS sarcasm in his post.

I didn't even post it and I got it right away.

HAHA! Now you just made the idiotic post.

You must not know CCRunner on these boards, because he wasn't being sarcastic, as he admitted after you posted.

Try again.

COLOSSAL mistake if and when it ever occurrs.

Footwedge wrote:

jmog wrote:

Once he implemented those foreign policies, how many terrorist have attacked the US?

Since Obama changed some of those policies how many terrorists have attacked the US?

About the same number. If you think Bush's policies kept us somehow safer, then talk to me about a bridge I want to sell.

Terrorism from Islamic radicals on US allies has increased dramatically post Iraq/Afghanistan invasion/occupation/democracy building/nation building.

Hardly. When you drain the swamp you find the alligators.

QuakerOats wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

jmog wrote:

Once he implemented those foreign policies, how many terrorist have attacked the US?

Since Obama changed some of those policies how many terrorists have attacked the US?

About the same number. If you think Bush's policies kept us somehow safer, then talk to me about a bridge I want to sell.

Terrorism from Islamic radicals on US allies has increased dramatically post Iraq/Afghanistan invasion/occupation/democracy building/nation building.

Hardly. When you drain the swamp you find the alligators.

And you also destroy the lives of/kill all the innocent creatures in the swamp.

Now there is a massive exaggeration if ever there was one, and that is exclusive of all those freed from tyranny and all those saved by attacks that have been thwarted that you will never know about.

Dang .... and you appeared to be progressing so well...............