FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Jun 15, 2017 1:06pm
That is another thing that never fails to happen. People immediately start proposing solutions that would not have prevented the tragedy. After the Connecticut school shooting they immediately called for strict licensing of ar-15s and wanted them to be stored securely. She had a license and the guns were stored in a safe. After this shooting we immediately start talking about assault rifles and the m4. I have not yet heard a definitive answer as to what he was using but i read yesterday it was an sks.gut;1859191 wrote: Of course, the great comedy of all this is that 95% of these proposals do virtually nothing and impact almost no one despite all the hand waving and crying from both sides.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 15, 2017 1:08pm
This is also very true. There are 300M+ guns in the US, with over 200k firearms STOLEN (or lost) every year. If you make gun ownership illegal, then you'll go through a 100 year period, at least, where only the criminals have guns.4cards;1859194 wrote:...criminals and crazy people will ALWAYS find a way to get a gun to kill people and more gov't controls will have zero impact on them, just the law abiding citizens.
Problem is, you can already make like 90% of a gun on a 3D printer, so even in a 100 years when those existing guns might stop functioning it won't really matter.
Truthfully, this is kind of a non-issue. When you ignore suicides and accidents, and look only at intentional homicides....sure, rates are 3-6X or more higher than in other OECD countries, but we are still only talking like 12,000 people a year (and probably 2/3 of that is criminal/criminal or gang/gang).
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Jun 15, 2017 1:09pm
Agree here as well. Why would i want to support another restriction if they aren't enforcing the restrictions currently in place.queencitybuckeye;1859196 wrote:Often lost in the call for more laws when there's an incident is the lack of enforcement of existing laws. It's illegal to attempt to purchase a gun when you're disqualified, some 70-80,000 do so annually, yet the prosecutions for it number in the low hundreds.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 15, 2017 1:11pm
Well, you surrender weapons you have licensed/registered. The cops enforce it just as they would any other court order to surrender property. I'm not sure what the question is or why it would be complicated.justincredible;1859197 wrote:How would you enforce the surrender of all firearms from someone like this?
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Jun 15, 2017 1:11pm
I also have zero interest in any type of required gun license/registration. Maybe it's just my tin foil hat talking but I'm not going to make confiscation easy for them.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 15, 2017 1:13pm
It also should be noted that FBI statistics show an estimated 200 people successfully protect themselves legally using a gun on a daily basis. This doesn't get coverage because 1) the vast majority of the time, no shooting is involved, and 2) it doesn't fit the narrative the newsies want to report.gut;1859203 wrote:This is also very true. There are 300M+ guns in the US, with over 200k firearms STOLEN (or lost) every year. If you make gun ownership illegal, then you'll go through a 100 year period, at least, where only the criminals have guns.
Problem is, you can already make like 90% of a gun on a 3D printer, so even in a 100 years when those existing guns might stop functioning it won't really matter.
Truthfully, this is kind of a non-issue. When you ignore suicides and accidents, and look only at intentional homicides....sure, rates are 3-6X or more higher than in other OECD countries, but we are still only talking like 12,000 people a year (and probably 2/3 of that is criminal/criminal or gang/gang).
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Jun 15, 2017 1:13pm
I have a family member who is a felon and was on parole. His parole officer routinely searched his house and when he found a pocket knife in a drawer he confiscated it. I'm not 100% sure of the level of search but i believe he looked through his drawers, under his bed and in his closets.justincredible;1859197 wrote:How would you enforce the surrender of all firearms from someone like this?
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 15, 2017 1:14pm
There's no gun registration in a majority of states.gut;1859206 wrote:Well, you surrender weapons you have licensed/registered. The cops enforce it just as they would any other court order to surrender property. I'm not sure what the question is or why it would be complicated.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 15, 2017 1:14pm
AHHH! But you're forgetting that no Congressperson can grandstand on the mere enforcement of existing laws (which is an Exec branch responsibility). This is a very underrated part of the problem in Washington, which is everyone is looking for a new piece of legislation they can attach their name to.queencitybuckeye;1859196 wrote:Often lost in the call for more laws when there's an incident is the lack of enforcement of existing laws.
Seriously, Boehner was mocked for it but he made an all-time great statement when he said Congress should be measured based on how many laws they repeal [or fix].
justincredible
Posts: 32,056
Jun 15, 2017 1:16pm
And if they have guns that aren't licensed or registered?gut;1859206 wrote:Well, you surrender weapons you have licensed/registered. The cops enforce it just as they would any other court order to surrender property. I'm not sure what the question is or why it would be complicated.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 15, 2017 1:16pm
OK, I guess I was thinking of the record of sale....which would only apply to the original purchaser and not the secondary market.queencitybuckeye;1859210 wrote:There's no gun registration in a majority of states.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Jun 15, 2017 2:12pm
queencitybuckeye;1859208 wrote:It also should be noted that FBI statistics show an estimated 200 people successfully protect themselves legally using a gun on a daily basis. This doesn't get coverage because 1) the vast majority of the time, no shooting is involved, and 2) it doesn't fit the narrative the newsies want to report.
Bingo
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Posts: 1,799
Jun 15, 2017 3:45pm
I would be curious to see these statistics from the FBI, but I can't find them. Do you have a link?queencitybuckeye;1859208 wrote:It also should be noted that FBI statistics show an estimated 200 people successfully protect themselves legally using a gun on a daily basis. This doesn't get coverage because 1) the vast majority of the time, no shooting is involved, and 2) it doesn't fit the narrative the newsies want to report.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 15, 2017 4:04pm
I'm not seeing them either at the moment, I'll look again later. In the meantime, here's a good paper explaining why some estimates of defensive gun uses (DGUs) are ridiculously high (as in more DGUs than actual crimes committed). Filtering it down, they come up with a more reasonable number (one incidentally still higher than the FBI number).Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859231 wrote:I would be curious to see these statistics from the FBI, but I can't find them. Do you have a link?
http://home.uchicago.edu/ludwigj/papers/JPAM_Cook_Ludwig_Hemenway_2007.pdf
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Jun 15, 2017 4:17pm
This. Not to mention "[FONT=&]5 percent of the counties, which made up nearly half the population, accounted for more than two-thirds of murders in the country, with the highest numbers concentrated in areas around major cities like Chicago and Baltimore." It isn't like the wild west around here, gun murders happen in the same places over and over. It isn't a gun problem but any real conversation on this usually ends in a racism argument.gut;1859203 wrote:Truthfully, this is kind of a non-issue. When you ignore suicides and accidents, and look only at intentional homicides....sure, rates are 3-6X or more higher than in other OECD countries, but we are still only talking like 12,000 people a year (and probably 2/3 of that is criminal/criminal or gang/gang).
Link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/25/most-murders-occurred-in-5-percent-of-countys-says/[/FONT]
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Jun 20, 2017 7:49pm
Ok informationsalto;1859147 wrote:Belly, your thoughts? Does the bump stock make it an assault weapon?
Bump stock is a cheap design, cheaper plastic and over priced 300.00, no very durable.
With just a little trigger adjustment (special knowledge touch trigger) the amount of rapped fire can be achieved but just pulling the trigger and save yourself 300.00. Bottom line is simple you still have to pull and release the trigger hence semi-automatic. I don't believe item like the bump stock or hyper fire product should be sold to low level CCW license holders.
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Posts: 1,799
Jun 20, 2017 10:33pm
An honest question. I will preface by saying I have nothing against people legally owning guns.
What is at the core of our culture's fascination with guns? I have never understood it. The passion gun owners have for firearms is unlike anything else Les I can think of. Granted I am a native Ohioan living in Alabama, so i likely see an enhanced version of this passion.
What is at the core of our culture's fascination with guns? I have never understood it. The passion gun owners have for firearms is unlike anything else Les I can think of. Granted I am a native Ohioan living in Alabama, so i likely see an enhanced version of this passion.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jun 21, 2017 7:23am
Easy question.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859744 wrote:An honest question. I will preface by saying I have nothing against people legally owning guns.
What is at the core of our culture's fascination with guns? I have never understood it. The passion gun owners have for firearms is unlike anything else Les I can think of. Granted I am a native Ohioan living in Alabama, so i likely see an enhanced version of this passion.
A passion for freedom and their right to exercise the 2nd amendment.
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Posts: 1,799
Jun 21, 2017 8:42am
I understand that right of the 2nd amendment. But what I'm asking about is the passion people have for actual firearms. An answer of "a passion for freedom" doesn't really say anything. Freedom is important to many, if not most, of us. How does that have anything to do with firearms? It seems arbitrary. Like if someone asked, "why do you like stamp collecting?" and response was, "I have a passion for freedom."like_that;1859773 wrote:Easy question.
A passion for freedom and their right to exercise the 2nd amendment.
Again, honest question.
OSH
Posts: 4,145
Jun 21, 2017 8:49am
People like shooting guns?Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859744 wrote:An honest question. I will preface by saying I have nothing against people legally owning guns.
What is at the core of our culture's fascination with guns? I have never understood it. The passion gun owners have for firearms is unlike anything else Les I can think of. Granted I am a native Ohioan living in Alabama, so i likely see an enhanced version of this passion.
It's sometimes no different than any other "fascination" -- sports, food, beer, traveling, work, etc. I grew up around guns and hunting. Shooting is one of my favorite things to do. I don't get to do it much, but it's a lot of fun. One of the things I can do with my dad that he loves to do too. Growing up hunting was special in our family, especially during deer season. Family all got together, hunted, ate around the table 2-3x per day, and sat around talking. Definitely one of the best parts of my Granddad's legacy, to see the whole family together enjoying the company.
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Posts: 1,799
Jun 21, 2017 9:48am
I certainly understand this. Thanks for the reply.OSH;1859791 wrote:People like shooting guns?
It's sometimes no different than any other "fascination" -- sports, food, beer, traveling, work, etc. I grew up around guns and hunting. Shooting is one of my favorite things to do. I don't get to do it much, but it's a lot of fun. One of the things I can do with my dad that he loves to do too. Growing up hunting was special in our family, especially during deer season. Family all got together, hunted, ate around the table 2-3x per day, and sat around talking. Definitely one of the best parts of my Granddad's legacy, to see the whole family together enjoying the company.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jun 21, 2017 10:05am
Again, easy question. They like to demonstrate their passion for freedom and the 2nd amendment by purchasing guns and shooting them. Freedom, the 2nd amendment, and guns are all tied very closely together.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859789 wrote:I understand that right of the 2nd amendment. But what I'm asking about is the passion people have for actual firearms. An answer of "a passion for freedom" doesn't really say anything. Freedom is important to many, if not most, of us. How does that have anything to do with firearms? It seems arbitrary. Like if someone asked, "why do you like stamp collecting?" and response was, "I have a passion for freedom."
Again, honest question.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 21, 2017 10:12am
For myself, the freedom aspect of it is related to finding the notion of people thinking they have the right to tell me what I can do and what I can't do abhorrent. My philosophy in that regard is pretty simple. I owe you non-aggression and have the right to expect that (and pretty much only that) from you.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859744 wrote:An honest question. I will preface by saying I have nothing against people legally owning guns.
What is at the core of our culture's fascination with guns? I have never understood it. The passion gun owners have for firearms is unlike anything else Les I can think of. Granted I am a native Ohioan living in Alabama, so i likely see an enhanced version of this passion.
As a practical matter, we live in the country at the end of a 1/2 mile driveway off a lightly traveled road. If a situation happens where we could be in physical danger from someone (it has), the odds of law enforcement getting there in time is minimal. Self-defense is crucially important to us. Finally, as stated by OSH, shooting can be a lot of fun. It's become the closest thing I have to a hobby.
justincredible
Posts: 32,056
Jun 21, 2017 10:20am
Agreed, 100%.queencitybuckeye;1859820 wrote:For myself, the freedom aspect of it is related to finding the notion of people thinking they have the right to tell me what I can do and what I can't do abhorrent. My philosophy in that regard is pretty simple. I owe you non-aggression and have the right to expect that (and pretty much only that) from you.
Ok, G.I. Joe.queencitybuckeye;1859820 wrote:As a practical matter, we live in the country at the end of a 1/2 mile driveway off a lightly traveled road. If a situation happens where we could be in physical danger from someone (it has), the odds of law enforcement getting there in time is minimal. Self-defense is crucially important to us. Finally, as stated by OSH, shooting can be a lot of fun. It's become the closest thing I have to a hobby.
/salto
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superman
Posts: 3,582
Jun 21, 2017 11:35am
I just love the smell of gun powder in the morning. Smells like freedom. Also, it may sound cliched, but I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1859789 wrote:I understand that right of the 2nd amendment. But what I'm asking about is the passion people have for actual firearms. An answer of "a passion for freedom" doesn't really say anything. Freedom is important to many, if not most, of us. How does that have anything to do with firearms? It seems arbitrary. Like if someone asked, "why do you like stamp collecting?" and response was, "I have a passion for freedom."
Again, honest question.