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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 14, 2017 11:41am
Since morality is subjective and I choose to live in a land ruled by law, yes, I would follow the law while fighting to have it changed.O-Trap;1841463 wrote:...
Certainly, that last part is something that needs to be considered.
I would ask, though: Is your view to follow the law, regardless of whether or not you think the law is immoral?
I'm not really meaning to provoke an argument. Just curious about your statement and the possible implications pertaining to your moral hierarchy.....
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
Mar 14, 2017 12:29pm
At the risk of pulling on that thread, why fight to change it? If morality is subjective anyway, then what justifies any motivation to change the law of the land?Con_Alma;1841465 wrote:Since morality is subjective and I choose to live in a land ruled by law, yes, I would follow the law while fighting to have it changed.
Also, while I agree that morality being completely subjective is the most intellectually satisfying from some prior foundations, it seems like it would tend to be easier to adopt as someone who doesn't happen to be victimized by anything, would it not?
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 14, 2017 12:45pm
Why?...as an effort to obtain a law which was reflective of my morality.O-Trap;1841469 wrote:At the risk of pulling on that thread, why fight to change it? If morality is subjective anyway, then what justifies any motivation to change the law of the land?
Also, while I agree that morality being completely subjective is the most intellectually satisfying from some prior foundations, it seems like it would tend to be easier to adopt as someone who doesn't happen to be victimized by anything, would it not?
Easier to adopt??? I guess but the level of difficulty in adopting shouldn't or in my own personal case doesn't dictate the acceptance of a certain moral standing or not.
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
Mar 14, 2017 12:57pm
But what is the justification for wishing your own preferred brand of morality to be law? If you believe morality to be subjective, then you acknowledge your own moral code to be as subjective as any other. So why try to change what's already in place? What reason is there, beyond something self-involved?Con_Alma;1841471 wrote:Why?...as an effort to obtain a law which was reflective of my morality.
It would seem hard to say "shouldn't" under such a view, I would think.Con_Alma;1841471 wrote: Easier to adopt??? I guess but the level of difficulty in adopting shouldn't or in my own personal case doesn't dictate the acceptance of a certain moral standing or not.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 14, 2017 1:18pm
The first part/answer would be a confidence in the fact that if there wasn't sufficient interest of the collective through their own representation then the efforts to make the law be reflective of my moral view wouldn't/couldn't come to fruition. That being the case, the populace should be making efforts for the law to reflect their views so a true understanding of the people as a whole were known. The law would then be based on the people's view as opposed to my own and would exist having taking into account my view and determining that's it's in the minority.O-Trap;1841483 wrote:But what is the justification for wishing your own preferred brand of morality to be law? If you believe morality to be subjective, then you acknowledge your own moral code to be as subjective as any other. So why try to change what's already in place? What reason is there, beyond something self-involved?
It would seem hard to say "shouldn't" under such a view, I would think.
The second part/comment to your statement would be although it may be "hard" to say shouldn't but I hope I clarified further in saying it doesn't in my case/view.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Mar 14, 2017 4:02pm
I think ultimately the crux of the matter is accepting responsibility for your actions. Sex has a biological purpose and to engage in that, the reality is that pregnancy can occur. While I am not insisting on abstinence, An acceptance of possible outcomes seems prudent before engaging in the activity.O-Trap;1841417 wrote:So, ultimately, if a married couple is adamantly opposed to having more children, abstinence is the best practice?
Theoretically correct, I suppose. However, with every example you've given of measures one can take, I know personal examples where they've failed.
Really, the only thing I've suggested here is that people who don't want babies act in a responsible manner and take steps to prevent pregnancy, and failing that, that they move in a timely manner if the undesirable happens.
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Mar 14, 2017 9:51pm
Food for thought.O-Trap;1841463 wrote:
Perhaps this wouldn't be a bad parallel for some on here who sarcastically refer to Islam as a religion of peace. I wonder if they might lay the same brand of condemnation on the Catholic Church for the actions of a small percentage.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 15, 2017 11:19am
I'm pretty sure those people are the first to say "NOT ALL CHRISTIANS/CATHOLICS" when confronted by those pesky facts that detract from their pure "good/evil" mindset.O-Trap;1841463 wrote:Perhaps this wouldn't be a bad parallel for some on here who sarcastically refer to Islam as a religion of peace. I wonder if they might lay the same brand of condemnation on the Catholic Church for the actions of a small percentage.
Devils Advocate
Posts: 4,539
Mar 15, 2017 11:28am
Yep... The KKK is a Christian Organization.
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wkfan
Posts: 1,641
Mar 16, 2017 7:57am
They say that they are...but they really are not.Devils Advocate;1841835 wrote:Yep... The KKK is a Christian Organization.
Just like the Islamic State is not a religious organization, but a military one.
Devils Advocate
Posts: 4,539
Mar 16, 2017 7:49pm
Yep... Just like the Catholic church. You can't just be any person walking past the church and expect to enter and get saved.
You need to be indoctrinated and give me money first.
You need to be indoctrinated and give me money first.
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jmog
Posts: 6,567
Mar 16, 2017 10:36pm
My logical brain agrees with you 100%. My moral personal beliefs says no abortion after conception. That is where I believe life to begin. However, I understand that the closest science can prove life begins is where you are starting.BoatShoes;1841077 wrote:It is not arbitrary IMHO. Brain waves emanating from the frontal lobes from which consciousness and sentience emanates and connections between the thalamus and the cortex are,morally relevant facts.
The cessation of these functions is when natural death occurs as lower brain structures can emanate waves well after natural death.
Much more morally significant in my humble opinion than say a heartbeat as a heart is just a pump and we can replace them with artificial ones.
At the end of the day it is about finding a pragmatic place to figuring out when the unborn should be subject to the jurisdiction of the state as sovereign have the state's sovereignty replace the mother as sovereign.
Personally I would love if all abortions after this said point were deemed illegal (save for life/death of the mother).
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 17, 2017 10:05am
Devils Advocate;1842350 wrote:Yep... Just like the Catholic church. You can't just be any person walking past the church and expect to enter and get saved.
You need to be indoctrinated and give me money first.
Not true.
Devils Advocate
Posts: 4,539
Mar 17, 2017 2:37pm
How is it wrong, papal penis palpitation boy?
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 21, 2017 12:00pm
Interesting. The (wet) dream girl for elderly conservative dudes (because she tells them what they want to hear about how their generation was all tough and shit and it's the current one that sucks) got suspended from The Blaze for being pro-choice.
Lol.
Lol.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 21, 2017 1:44pm
Devils Advocate;1842510 wrote:How is it wrong, papal penis palpitation boy?
Fuck off.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
Mar 21, 2017 2:21pm
I think it's ridiculous. I don't know why Glenn Beck has a problem with nebulous political stances. You don't have to be a hardliner on every issue. In fact, I think being a straight line zealout is a dangerous thing. But apparently, if you want to work for him, you have to be.Heretic;1843095 wrote:Interesting. The (wet) dream girl for elderly conservative dudes (because she tells them what they want to hear about how their generation was all tough and shit and it's the current one that sucks) got suspended from The Blaze for being pro-choice.
Lol.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 21, 2017 3:30pm
It's about time for her to take a job at Fox News, anyway. :laugh:Heretic;1843095 wrote:Interesting. The (wet) dream girl for elderly conservative dudes (because she tells them what they want to hear about how their generation was all tough and shit and it's the current one that sucks) got suspended from The Blaze for being pro-choice.
fish82
Posts: 4,111
Mar 21, 2017 4:43pm
All that proved is that she's scared of Joy Behar. :laugh:Heretic;1843095 wrote:Interesting. The (wet) dream girl for elderly conservative dudes (because she tells them what they want to hear about how their generation was all tough and shit and it's the current one that sucks) got suspended from The Blaze for being pro-choice.
Lol.
Devils Advocate
Posts: 4,539
Mar 21, 2017 5:19pm
Thank you.QuakerOats;1843119 wrote:Fuck off.
Now tell me how a person can walk off of the street and get saved by the Catholic church with it the indoctrination and the tithes.
Just admit your papal penis palpitating propensities and and produce a predictable and preposterous plethora of petulance, you P. U. SSY
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
Mar 21, 2017 5:23pm
So, what's your opinion about International Women's Day? (if you have one)Devils Advocate;1843180 wrote:Thank you.
Now tell me how a person can walk off of the street and get saved by the Catholic church with it the indoctrination and the tithes.
Just admit your papal penis palpitating propensities and and produce a predictable and preposterous plethora of petulance, you P. U. SSY
Devils Advocate
Posts: 4,539
Mar 21, 2017 5:31pm
I view it like religion and sexual preference.CenterBHSFan;1843183 wrote:So, what's your opinion about International Women's Day? (if you have one)
If you need to celebrate it in the presence of others to re enforce your belief in it, have at it... Until you feel the need to force it on others.