ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 9, 2017 9:12am
How anyone is OK with giving freedoms away to the government is beyond me.
justincredible
Posts: 32,056
Mar 9, 2017 9:23am
Government would NEVER abuse this. No way.ernest_t_bass;1840480 wrote:How anyone is OK with giving freedoms away to the government is beyond me.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 9, 2017 9:43am
...and if they did, and you say anything, they will use it to silence you. Again, it's come to the point where local law enforcement is using drone technology to look for criminal activity and people don't care.justincredible;1840481 wrote:Government would NEVER abuse this. No way.
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 9, 2017 10:06am
One of the many reasons I'm glad I live in small-town USA.Azubuike24;1840486 wrote:...and if they did, and you say anything, they will use it to silence you. Again, it's come to the point where local law enforcement is using drone technology to look for criminal activity and people don't care.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 9, 2017 10:30am
I have nothing to hide, so it's ok. /sheepernest_t_bass;1840480 wrote:How anyone is OK with giving freedoms away to the government is beyond me.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
Mar 9, 2017 10:54am
The standard answer that I've observed is:
"We've known since 9/11 that we'd have to give up some freedoms for safety."
"We've known since 9/11 that we'd have to give up some freedoms for safety."
justincredible
Posts: 32,056
Mar 9, 2017 11:21am
If you're that worried about your safety you should probably never leave your house.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Mar 9, 2017 11:41am
I think some people don't understand the importance of the Utah data center. They are recording everything you say or do. They record more than anyone can possibly watch or listen. But if they decide they want to check up on you they have everything you've ever said electronically and that can look back through it for whatever they want.QuakerOats;1840108 wrote:Utah data center ---> not fake
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 9, 2017 11:52am
^ just like Google and Amazon and ................... but folks seem fine with that. Crazy.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 9, 2017 12:22pm
I've read a few of the reports and briefs and my reaction is simply good. I sure hope our intelligence agencies are using the most innovative ways to spy on our enemies. I just hope now this does not hurt our efforts to continue to spy on those counties.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 9, 2017 12:28pm
Or to paraphrase: "We've known since 9/11 that the government would use 9/11 as their excuse to take away freedoms for 'safety'."CenterBHSFan;1840506 wrote:The standard answer that I've observed is:
"We've known since 9/11 that we'd have to give up some freedoms for safety."
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 9, 2017 1:03pm
And cops used to walk a beat, then two to a vehicle, and then one, and then less vehicles. What is wrong with drones if they can improve coverage and response times?Azubuike24;1840486 wrote:Again, it's come to the point where local law enforcement is using drone technology to look for criminal activity and people don't care.
When they develop biosensors that know you're in trouble and can alert emergency medical - are you going to not have this because you're afraid of the govt tracking you by gps?
Again, NONE of this is about the use of technology but how the technology is used.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 9, 2017 1:08pm
Because I'm not an anarchist or anti-technology. I'm anti-abuse, and all I've seen so far is a lot of "smoke" about potential abuse of US citizens. These arguments have been going on for decades with every advance in technology. You don't walk away from the benefits of technology just because of the potential for abuse.Wolves of Babylon;1840473 wrote:Surprised gut is taking this stance honestly. I always took him as having a Libertarian leaning mindset.
I'm surprised some of you don't think we shouldn't have cops, because occasionally they beat or shoot the wrong person.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
Mar 9, 2017 1:14pm
Finally this morning, the Wheeling Intelligencer had an article on this. One page 12.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 9, 2017 1:14pm
There is the FISA and FISC. You have House and Senate oversight committees. I'm sure there are also other oversights and checks and balances. You have a chain of command. You have whistle blowers and leakers.Azubuike24;1840470 wrote:How so? The CIA is allowed to have the technology for "international espionage" yet when it's possible that they are using it domestically, there's nothing to prevent it.
You guys are basically arguing we shouldn't have this technology because the law might be broken using it. If that's the position you're going to take then there is no rational debating. That someone might use something to break the law and do harm is pretty much an argument for living under a rock in a cave.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 9, 2017 3:15pm
That's not what I'm complaining about. I love technology. I mention the drones for a situation like, and don't get me wrong, this is extreme, but..."individual gets caught talking about murdering someone because they talk about it in their kitchen...refrigerator picks it up, it's flagged, they use that as probable cause to ransack his life."gut;1840549 wrote:And cops used to walk a beat, then two to a vehicle, and then one, and then less vehicles. What is wrong with drones if they can improve coverage and response times?
When they develop biosensors that know you're in trouble and can alert emergency medical - are you going to not have this because you're afraid of the govt tracking you by gps?
Again, NONE of this is about the use of technology but how the technology is used.
I'm not condoning the crime, but it's a slippery slope that just slowly takes away our individual freedoms. And sure, you're going to say "well, don't murder anyone", but that's just an extreme example. It slowly degrades down to much more minor crimes.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 9, 2017 3:16pm
Get real. They own everyone in Congress and in any judicial position. There are very few whistle-blowers because they won't be alive or have a voice for very long.gut;1840557 wrote:There is the FISA and FISC. You have House and Senate oversight committees. I'm sure there are also other oversights and checks and balances. You have a chain of command. You have whistle blowers and leakers.
You guys are basically arguing we shouldn't have this technology because the law might be broken using it. If that's the position you're going to take then there is no rational debating. That someone might use something to break the law and do harm is pretty much an argument for living under a rock in a cave.
Spock
Posts: 2,853
Mar 9, 2017 5:39pm
I see that Trump was right on the taps at the trump tower.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 9, 2017 5:42pm
Does anyone really doubt that one administration doesn't pull this shit on their opponents? Major denial if people are trying to say Obama didn't do some of what is rumored.Spock;1840708 wrote:I see that Trump was right on the taps at the trump tower.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Mar 10, 2017 9:11am
A pretty good summary of how I feel. I mean for example, when it came down to taking someone's freedom away, no AUSA that I know wouldn't laugh in an investigator's face if they relied on warrantless recordings from a hacked tv mic!gut;1840554 wrote:Because I'm not an anarchist or anti-technology. I'm anti-abuse, and all I've seen so far is a lot of "smoke" about potential abuse of US citizens. These arguments have been going on for decades with every advance in technology. You don't walk away from the benefits of technology just because of the potential for abuse.
I'm surprised some of you don't think we shouldn't have cops, because occasionally they beat or shoot the wrong person.
It is cause for a healthy civic concern for the potential f abuse...not cause for alarm IMHO.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Mar 10, 2017 9:16am
My humble opinion is that there's no reason to believe these allegations based upon wild speculation and no proof just like there is no good reason to believe the claims about trump and Russia.Azubuike24;1840711 wrote:Does anyone really doubt that one administration doesn't pull this shit on their opponents? Major denial if people are trying to say Obama didn't do some of what is rumored.
Even if we might resonably suspect malfeasance that warrants further inquiry, as it stands, none of these claims can satisfy any reasonable standard of proof
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Mar 10, 2017 9:18am
Is there any evidence to support this? Dennis Kucinich is no longer in Congress...he was all over this kind of stuff....He's not squealing because the CIA knows he faps to midget porn?Azubuike24;1840628 wrote:Get real. They own everyone in Congress and in any judicial position. There are very few whistle-blowers because they won't be alive or have a voice for very long.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 14, 2017 5:30pm
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Mar 14, 2017 6:06pm
"House Democrats have stood by the contractors, privately and publicly suggesting their Muslim and Pakistani heritage prompted the probe and is contributing to fear-mongering."QuakerOats;1841643 wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/14/plot-thickens-in-probe-house-it-contractors.html
I can't decide if there really is discrimination coming from the Trump camp or if the Democrats just use that as a blanket defense for everything.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 14, 2017 6:30pm
Probably a combination of both, with the Democrats taking advantage of the discrimination to use it as a blanket defense, whether it actually fits in that situation or not.FatHobbit;1841660 wrote:"House Democrats have stood by the contractors, privately and publicly suggesting their Muslim and Pakistani heritage prompted the probe and is contributing to fear-mongering."
I can't decide if there really is discrimination coming from the Trump camp or if the Democrats just use that as a blanket defense for everything.