Disgusted with Trump administration - Part I

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sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 7, 2017 4:46 PM
QuakerOats;1835918 wrote:If the media and the profiteers of BIG government are in hysterics, the prez must be doing a good job.

Carry on.
History doesn't look too kindly on those who defend fascist governments.

I hope you are able to sleep at night.
Feb 7, 2017 4:46pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 7, 2017 4:47 PM
Also, how's that Obamacare repeal coming? Was that fake news too?

The reality is, the Republicans have no plan and they will never do anything. How does it feel to be lied to?
Feb 7, 2017 4:47pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:01 PM
Obamacare didn't really help that many people. Federal allocation increases to Medicaid did. As for repealing Obamacare, it's hard to support something that forces you to have insurance (or pay a penalty) so everyone can have it. There's also zero focus on prevention, in-fact, it's shunned in today's industry. Hundreds of millions of people eat themselves into obesity, Diabetes and other chronic and preventable issues...for which we could easily provide insurance for everyone if we cut down on this expense.

Health care costs for obesity are 150 billion dollars or more. How ridiculous is it that we're fighting over something with such an obvious solution. Sleeper, being that you are logical, it's hard to really call Obamacare a partisan issue. It's not. The fact is, we're fighting over the wrong thing entirely.
Feb 7, 2017 5:01pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:03 PM
...and regardless of your political stance, Obama brought national health care to the US. Until people realize we're fighting the wrong fight, all we're going to see is...one side is for it...the other side gets power and gets rid of it, and so on, so on, so on...fix the fucking problem to begin with.
Feb 7, 2017 5:03pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:06 PM
Azubuike24;1835922 wrote:Obamacare didn't really help that many people. Federal allocation increases to Medicaid did. As for repealing Obamacare, it's hard to support something that forces you to have insurance (or pay a penalty) so everyone can have it. There's also zero focus on prevention, in-fact, it's shunned in today's industry. Hundreds of millions of people eat themselves into obesity, Diabetes and other chronic and preventable issues...for which we could easily provide insurance for everyone if we cut down on this expense.

Health care costs for obesity are 150 billion dollars or more. How ridiculous is it that we're fighting over something with such an obvious solution. Sleeper, being that you are logical, it's hard to really call Obamacare a partisan issue. It's not. The fact is, we're fighting over the wrong thing entirely.
The fix is easy. Single payer healthcare. That is the only option for reduced costs while maintaining high levels of care.
Feb 7, 2017 5:06pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:19 PM
Bigger picture. Eliminate the need for so much of it.
Feb 7, 2017 5:19pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:21 PM
sleeper;1835914 wrote:So because the media is fairly and accurately reporting our President, good or bad ...
Whoaaaaa ... pump the brakes.

Look, Trump is an incompetent, illiterate manchild, so I have NO issue with people calling him out, but there are more than two sides in the real world, and I think the major media outlets have, in part, given rise to a climate where people elect such a knuckle-dragger.
majorspark;1835916 wrote:Putin's methods work much better. Botched muggings where the muggee gets dead or a fresh salad from his Chernobyl garden.
Just because one is bad, that doesn't mean the other is okay.
sleeper;1835917 wrote:Where have all the decent Republicans went? Where are their spines? Absolutely horrifying that Trump gets any support at all in this country.
There are an awful lot of "snowflakes" in the GOP (and certainly plenty in the Democratic Party). You get in line or you're suddenly part of the problem.

"You're either with us or against us" is rarely a true statement. More than two sides. We heard it when Bush tried to push people to either support the war effort or side with the terrorists. We've heard it more recently that you're either active in shaming people who agree with something Milo says, or you're a racist fascist who wants a return of the Third Reich.
sleeper;1835920 wrote:How does it feel to be lied to?
Normal. It feels normal. Like every other fucking election.
Feb 7, 2017 5:21pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:49 PM
sleeper;1835924 wrote:The fix is easy. Single payer healthcare. That is the only option for reduced costs while maintaining high levels of care.
You bitch about the GOP and abortion, yet you want them to have complete control of our healthcare? Great idea [emoji108].


Doug flute was on pardon my take the other day and he talked about his time playing in the CFL. He said when players needed to go to the doctor for a legitimate reason they would go to the states. Shitty healthcare and no one could afford to wait 6-9 months. Single payer in a nutshell. Just ask the majority of our active dusty on how they feel about tricare. Their sentiments are similar to flutie.
Feb 7, 2017 5:49pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Feb 7, 2017 5:57 PM
O-Trap;1835926 wrote:Just because one is bad, that doesn't mean the other is okay.
I think that if you took those who are simply blindly partisan out of the equation, this sentiment you were responding too is probably my biggest pet peeve when it comes to political commentary, especially since it almost always seems to come from people who you'd think be intelligent to know better (I mean, I don't know Major, but he can type proper, grammatically accurate, complete sentences at least). The simple concept of essentially saying, "No point in complaining about this when things are handled worse in other parts of the world?" is just dumb as hell. If something is wrong, something is wrong. The fact that in some other country, people are doing things that are more wrong is irrelevant.
Feb 7, 2017 5:57pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 7, 2017 6:01 PM
like_that;1835927 wrote:You bitch about the GOP and abortion, yet you want them to have complete control of our healthcare? Great idea [emoji108].
In general, it seems like if we didn't allocate so much relevant power to any office or entity, we wouldn't have to lose our fucking minds about the wrong person being elected to that office/committee/etc.
Feb 7, 2017 6:01pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 7, 2017 6:03 PM
Heretic;1835929 wrote:I think that if you took those who are simply blindly partisan out of the equation, this sentiment you were responding too is probably my biggest pet peeve when it comes to political commentary, especially since it almost always seems to come from people who you'd think be intelligent to know better (I mean, I don't know Major, but he can type proper, grammatically accurate, complete sentences at least). The simple concept of essentially saying, "No point in complaining about this when things are handled worse in other parts of the world?" is just dumb as hell. If something is wrong, something is wrong. The fact that in some other country, people are doing things that are more wrong is irrelevant.
With our constant two-party supermajority, it seems like the #1 logical fallacy in politics is the false dilemma.

However, because we're also all fucking children about politics, I'm sure ad hominem isn't far behind.
Feb 7, 2017 6:03pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Feb 7, 2017 6:09 PM
O-Trap;1835931 wrote:With our constant two-party supermajority, it seems like the #1 logical fallacy in politics is the false dilemma.

However, because we're also all fucking children about politics, I'm sure ad hominem isn't far behind.
True. I guess it's more a matter of combating that sort of weak logic...or magnifying it. "Why bother with a wall or vetting/banning refugees? It's not like we're as bad off as Syria, are we?!?!?"
Feb 7, 2017 6:09pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 7, 2017 6:21 PM
Heretic;1835933 wrote:True. I guess it's more a matter of combating that sort of weak logic...or magnifying it. "Why bother with a wall or vetting/banning refugees? It's not like we're as bad off as Syria, are we?!?!?"
Perfect example.
Feb 7, 2017 6:21pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Feb 7, 2017 7:27 PM
O-Trap;1835930 wrote:In general, it seems like if we didn't allocate so much relevant power to any office or entity, we wouldn't have to lose our fucking minds about the wrong person being elected to that office/committee/etc.
Pretty much. Everyone is freaking out about DeVos and I am just sitting here thinking the Dept of EDU shouldn't exist or at the very least shouldn't have a $73B budget. Then again, I feel this way about many departments and agencies.
Feb 7, 2017 7:27pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 7, 2017 7:32 PM
like_that;1835944 wrote:Pretty much. Everyone is freaking out about DeVos and I am just sitting here thinking the Dept of EDU shouldn't exist or at the very least shouldn't have a $73B budget. Then again, I feel this way about many departments and agencies.
Hell, maybe even ... *gasp* ... the President of the United States.
Feb 7, 2017 7:32pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 7, 2017 8:00 PM
Hail Trump! Alternate truth of the day.
Trump told the sheriffs, “the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years.” He blamed the news media for not publicizing this development, then added, “But the murder rate is the highest it’s been in, I guess, 45 to 47 years.”

The murder rate is defined as the number of murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 residents. Beginning in 1957, when the rate was 4.0 murders per 100,000 residents, the rate rose steadily to a high of 10.2 in 1980. It then steadily dropped, to 7.4 in 1996, to 6.1 in 2006, to 4.4 in 2014. It went up in 2015 to 4.9. But that is less than half the murder rate of 1980, while the population has risen from 226 million in 1980 to 321 million in 2015.
Feb 7, 2017 8:00pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 7, 2017 9:59 PM
Hail Trump! Even Government Lawyers arguing for the immigrant ban say ignore what the President had to say.
"A government lawyer urged a federal appellate panel not to consider comments by Donald Trump and his advisers about wanting to ban the entry of Muslims into the United States, arguing that they should only look at the text of his executive order banning travel from seven majority Muslim nations in considering its legality under the Constitution."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/government-lawyer-urges-9th-circuit-not-to-consider-trumps-muslim-ban-comments-013335035.html
Feb 7, 2017 9:59pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
Feb 8, 2017 12:23 AM
O-Trap;1835926 wrote:Just because one is bad, that doesn't mean the other is okay.
Heretic;1835929 wrote:I think that if you took those who are simply blindly partisan out of the equation, this sentiment you were responding too is probably my biggest pet peeve when it comes to political commentary, especially since it almost always seems to come from people who you'd think be intelligent to know better (I mean, I don't know Major, but he can type proper, grammatically accurate, complete sentences at least). The simple concept of essentially saying, "No point in complaining about this when things are handled worse in other parts of the world?" is just dumb as hell. If something is wrong, something is wrong. The fact that in some other country, people are doing things that are more wrong is irrelevant.
Guys look at the poster my comment was directed. His new troll act has included some outrageous conclusions. Posts in the context of the ascension of a totalitarian dictator in the USA with the evil intent of past 20th century rulers. My comment was mocking in nature in that context. As were other comments I made recently in that same context mentioning cattle cars for immigrants and labor camps in ANWAR.

A comment also made in the context of the current Trump/Putin buddy thought that is percolating in the political world. The same thought I mocked was propagated by journalist Katy Tur in an interview with a US Senator.

As for the post in point the calling out of media outlets by the POTUS or spokespersons for their administrations is not new. Calling them biased, fake, not legitimate, or even an arm of the opposition party. Prior to Trump it has been done as recently as the past administration. The executive does have free speech. I personally don’t like it when they can’t brush it off but as long as they do not use the power of the office other than a platform of speech I am not going to flip my shit.
Feb 8, 2017 12:23am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 8, 2017 7:37 AM
O-Trap;1835945 wrote:Hell, maybe even ... *gasp* ... the President of the United States.
Lol, I actually would like to see you elaborate on this.
Feb 8, 2017 7:37am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Feb 8, 2017 10:54 AM
sleeper;1835924 wrote:The fix is easy. Single payer healthcare. That is the only option for reduced costs while maintaining high levels of care.


Except the exact opposite would occur.
Feb 8, 2017 10:54am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 8, 2017 11:20 AM
QuakerOats;1835998 wrote:Except the exact opposite would occur.
Except we already see successful single payer models across the world which spend far less per citizen than that of healthcare in the States.

Facts don't care about your feelings.
Feb 8, 2017 11:20am
Spock's avatar

Spock

Senior Member

2,853 posts
Feb 8, 2017 11:23 AM
sleeper;1836003 wrote:Except we already see successful single payer models across the world which spend far less per citizen than that of healthcare in the States.

Facts don't care about your feelings.
listen

Single payer in this country is not the same as some other countries. there are 300 million people here. The single payer system in a country like Holland where there are 4 million people wont work here.
Feb 8, 2017 11:23am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Feb 8, 2017 11:24 AM
There are no successful single payer models anywhere in the world, if you want to count all attributes and outcomes.

When people want the best healthcare, they come to U.S.

If you want BIG government to completely destroy great healthcare, then keep doing what your are doing.
Feb 8, 2017 11:24am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 8, 2017 11:27 AM
Spock;1836005 wrote:listen

Single payer in this country is not the same as some other countries. there are 300 million people here. The single payer system in a country like Holland where there are 4 million people wont work here.
Listen, facts don't care about your feelings. You already pay for the people who don't work in a privatized medical system but you pay for them at the highest cost(no preventative medicine, only treated at emergency rooms, etc). Maybe if these people had the ability to go to the doctor for regular checkups they would be LESS costly!

Let me repeat that; you are already paying for them! Right now! And it will always be this way unless you advocate for mass genocide against people who can't afford healthcare.
Feb 8, 2017 11:27am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Feb 8, 2017 11:30 AM
sleeper;1836008 wrote:Let me repeat that; you are already paying for them! Right now! And it will always be this way
unless you advocate for mass genocide against people who can't afford healthcare.
Spoken like someone who might care about alleviating present-day infanticide.
Feb 8, 2017 11:30am