Automatik;1866821 wrote:This presser is a disaster. Holy fuck.

Well, you see, after his two-day-late (because he needed to see the facts, because he's NEVER previously made up something without knowledge of the facts, amirite, lol) comment denouncing the KKK, etc., David Duke sent out an angry tweet directed at him for those comments.

And if there is one thing Trump understands, it's angry, unhinged tweets with no common sense involved in the thought process behind them.

Someone should have shown The Donald the Charlottesville invite prior to this presser.

He's a f'ing moron


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Automatik;1866797 wrote:Wasn't sure where to put this, but it's worth the watch.

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Ok I have not seen any footage from Virginia till this video....the state police screwed this up. Their lack of control looks almost on purpose.

Second...why does the stupid lady have to call these hats groups "alt right"?

Spock;1866846 wrote:Second...why does the stupid lady have to call these hats groups

yeah fuck hats!

superman;1866567 wrote:In cool with legal immigration but I also don't have a problem with reasonable limits. Tons of people want in, let's give preference to the best and brightest.

Believing that there are "reasonable limits" to legal immigration means you do, at some point anyway, have a problem with legal immigration.

Also, who's the lucky winner who gets to decide what "reasonable limits" are, how we evaluate the best and brightest, and where the cutoff line might be? Would you still feel the same way if someone in charge decided that the "reasonable limits" allowed for MORE immigration?

I'm not sure if we can put a number on yearly immigration. But I think that there is certainly an manageable agenda that needs to be met with each round or year we bring them in.

1.) Living areas. Each town or city must be willing to accept, must have suitable housing for them and hopefully not all in one small area. This will help facilitate assimilation such as picking up on local/state/national laws. Reading the differences of life in the US versus where people come from is most likely easier to be learned by not only reading it in a pamphlet but by observation and actually living through it too.

2.) Education. While most immigrants already know (at least passable) english, there are a number so far that do not. Some of these might be asylum seekers, but some of them are not. I will also include getting drivers' licenses in this too, because public transit might not be the best solution depending on where they are settled.
Also under education; we need to make sure that people understand that in the US religion is not our law.

3.) Jobs. We just can't plunk people down in a country completely alien to them and expect them to figure things out on their own. We need people in place to liason this and make sure that singles or families have a way to support themselves immediately after arriving or after an adjustment period.

These are the main problems that Europe is trying to wrestle with now after their large influx of accepting immigrants. And in every major European country there are problems with people being plunked down in ghettos, joblessness, communication issues, non-assimilation, etc. I don't think we have had the large amount of problems that Europe has had, but it has started to creep in.

We also need to keep distinctions between asylum seekers, immigrants and migrant workers. In Europe, these have all been lumped together in each wave that countries get. The Calais Jungle was a travesty in every definition. Most of the people camped there were migrant workers and not asylum seekers. And even though it has been "officially" shut down, migrants have been returning there left and right.

Again, the US is big enough that that we shouldn't have some of the problems that Europe has had. At the same time, however, we need to prevent the problems of dropping people off in only a handful of areas. It only makes it harder to adjust to a new way of life if people only interact with each other.

Can you quantify these things by a certain amount per year? I don't think so. But IMO it would be best to undershoot than overshoot.

O-Trap;1866880 wrote:Believing that there are "reasonable limits" to legal immigration means you do, at some point anyway, have a problem with legal immigration.

Also, who's the lucky winner who gets to decide what "reasonable limits" are, how we evaluate the best and brightest, and where the cutoff line might be? Would you still feel the same way if someone in charge decided that the "reasonable limits" allowed for MORE immigration?

In not sure what you're asking. Are you saying their should be no limits? Anybody shoukd be let in regardless of criminal history, job skills, or potential drain on th economy?

regardless if the press wants to make it out that Trump didnt say the right words....the real story here is that there is a solid movement in this country to have professional protesters at everything to just start crap for the media to film. Alt right this, alt left that......its all planned propoganda for us to watch on the 6pm news.

Spock;1866889 wrote:regardless if the press wants to make it out that Trump didnt say the right words....the real story here is that there is a solid movement in this country to have professional protesters at everything to just start crap for the media to film. Alt right this, alt left that......its all planned propoganda for us to watch on the 6pm news.

I absolutely do not think this was about a group of paid protesters. I don't think lefty or righty groups need to be paid to be in order to be organized and have intent in mind. Were there paid protesters during the election process? Sure. Charlottesville? Nope.

I actually just finished watching the presser from last night. Was what he said wrong? That both sides were violent? Were his words just bad timing? Were they reckless?

As I sit here typing this out I'm trying to keep my personal bias concerning Trump shoved to the back of my mind. Nearly impossible, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

First and foremost, somebody died in this mess. Murdered is the correct word. For what? Because she thought differently than somebody else. What is wrong with us, as a people, that we are so polarized that we're missing the forest because of the trees? What else can her death be from other than domestic terrorism? It cannot be labeled as anything else than domestic terrorism and I wish that this would be focused on more in the media and by Trump. A person fucking died! And others injured.

Secondly: Yes, there are very bad people in the extreme right. They are just consumed with hateful ideology and actions. We need to consider these people with just as much disdain as we consider any other bad people/groups of people. And every conservative or right-leaning person on this site needs to admit it and not say things like "Well, no matter what Trump says/does... ". That is wrong-headed in every way. I think it's time to stop it. Just... stop.

Third: Do these people like the KKK deserve a right to protest? Sure. Do they have a right to their ideology? Yes. Do they have the right to violence and murder? Absolutely not.

Fourth: Does the left have the same kinds of people? Yes.

Fifth: I don't think that the things Trump said was inherently wrong and I actually agree with a lot of what he said. But, he was reckless and insensitive in his delivery. He could have very easily addressed some of his points at a later time - such as the violence of the left - and it would have most likely had a deeper impact.

Ok, that's enough fairness for one day lol

To further my point, I think this video shows the exact problem that we see on this site, in every town/state all across the US.

[video=youtube;bysVMdYTP2g][/video]

I happen to think that each of the people on this clip were right, in their own way. But they can't seem to understand how the other person was correct and how they interconnect. This is very much, almost exactly, the problem in the political climate we're experiencing today and we certainly see it all the time on this forum.
The question is, how do we fix this and bridge the gaps?

CenterBHSFan;1866894 wrote:I actually just finished watching the presser from last night. Was what he said wrong? That both sides were violent? Were his words just bad timing? Were they reckless?

As I sit here typing this out I'm trying to keep my personal bias concerning Trump shoved to the back of my mind. Nearly impossible, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

First and foremost, somebody died in this mess. Murdered is the correct word. For what? Because she thought differently than somebody else. What is wrong with us, as a people, that we are so polarized that we're missing the forest because of the trees? What else can her death be from other than domestic terrorism? It cannot be labeled as anything else than domestic terrorism and I wish that this would be focused on more in the media and by Trump. A person fucking died! And others injured.

Secondly: Yes, there are very bad people in the extreme right. They are just consumed with hateful ideology and actions. We need to consider these people with just as much disdain as we consider any other bad people/groups of people. And every conservative or right-leaning person on this site needs to admit it and not say things like "Well, no matter what Trump says/does... ". That is wrong-headed in every way. I think it's time to stop it. Just... stop.

Third: Do these people like the KKK deserve a right to protest? Sure. Do they have a right to their ideology? Yes. Do they have the right to violence and murder? Absolutely not.

Fourth: Does the left have the same kinds of people? Yes.

Fifth: I don't think that the things Trump said was inherently wrong and I actually agree with a lot of what he said. But, he was reckless and insensitive in his delivery. He could have very easily addressed some of his points at a later time - such as the violence of the left - and it would have most likely had a deeper impact.

Ok, that's enough fairness for one day lol

I think you have seen every conservative on this site have a disdain and call out the KKK/Nazi group there except maybe QO (but come on, that's like asking isadore to call out BLM).

So you already have what you asked for, 99.999% of conservatives believe the KKK/Neo-Nazi group is completely deplorable and that time of hate should not exist.

Like you said, every group has a right to protest until they become violent. All 3 or 4 groups that were here (Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi) are guilty of inciting violence here, all 4 groups are wrong. And you are right, the one guy should be charged with murder and domestic terrorism.

I, admittedly, have not seen last night's presser yet to give an opinion.

jmog;1866911 wrote:I think you have seen every conservative on this site have a disdain and call out the KKK/Nazi group there except maybe QO (but come on, that's like asking isadore to call out BLM).

So you already have what you asked for, 99.999% of conservatives believe the KKK/Neo-Nazi group is completely deplorable and that time of hate should not exist.

Like you said, every group has a right to protest until they become violent. All 3 or 4 groups that were here (Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi) are guilty of inciting violence here, all 4 groups are wrong. And you are right, the one guy should be charged with murder and domestic terrorism.

I, admittedly, have not seen last night's presser yet to give an opinion.

I think the fact that it was said even once is nuts and it doesn't matter who said it. My whole point is that it should never have been said at all, here or elsewhere. And it was said more than once and in different ways. That was my point.

As for you not watching the presser, you probably should. It was typical Trump but in fairness the things he said were not wrong - just delivered recklessly and was ill-timed. I'm not going to act like my hair is on fire over it like others do, though, because it's old hat at this point and shouldn't shock anybody. But then I'm letting my anti-Trump bias color a little there lol

superman;1866884 wrote:In not sure what you're asking. Are you saying their should be no limits? Anybody shoukd be let in regardless of criminal history, job skills, or potential drain on th economy?

I wasn't saying much at all. I was asking questions, mostly.

I did say that you do seem to, at least to some degree, have a problem with some legal immigration. If a person goes through the proper channels, but they were to still be denied because of an additional metric (such as what you seem to be suggesting), that would indeed be denying legal immigration, would it not?

The rest were just questions resultant from your reasons for not supporting all legal immigration. You said that there should be "reasonable limits." You then said something along the lines of giving preferential access to whomever is deemed the "best and brightest."

(a) Who determines these "reasonable limits?" Can you make any sort of objective argument in support of why a particular group should?

(b) How do we determine which immigration candidates are the "best and brightest?" What criteria do we use to predict who will or won't be a drain on society?

(c) Moreover, if the process that would be resultant from answering the above two questions were to, perhaps under a new administration, be used to INCREASE the flow of immigrants, would you still support its legitimacy?

CenterBHSFan;1866893 wrote:I absolutely do not think this was about a group of paid protesters. I don't think lefty or righty groups need to be paid to be in order to be organized and have intent in mind. Were there paid protesters during the election process? Sure. Charlottesville? Nope.

This.

If there WERE a mass conspiracy to start upheaval all over the country, you wouldn't need paid actors. Plenty of our college-educated "best and brightest" would be more than willing to drum up a healthy dose of outrage at really anything.

jmog;1866911 wrote:I think you have seen every conservative on this site have a disdain and call out the KKK/Nazi group there except maybe QO (but come on, that's like asking isadore to call out BLM).

So you already have what you asked for, 99.999% of conservatives believe the KKK/Neo-Nazi group is completely deplorable and that time of hate should not exist.

Like you said, every group has a right to protest until they become violent. All 3 or 4 groups that were here (Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi) are guilty of inciting violence here, all 4 groups are wrong. And you are right, the one guy should be charged with murder and domestic terrorism.

I, admittedly, have not seen last night's presser yet to give an opinion.

I had no idea that we were required to pass a litmus test here. But to make you feel better, I obviously have great disdain for KKK/Nazi groups. Feel free to quote me on that in future posts.

CenterBHSFan;1866894 wrote:I actually just finished watching the presser from last night. Was what he said wrong? That both sides were violent? Were his words just bad timing? Were they reckless?

As I sit here typing this out I'm trying to keep my personal bias concerning Trump shoved to the back of my mind. Nearly impossible, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

First and foremost, somebody died in this mess. Murdered is the correct word. For what? Because she thought differently than somebody else. What is wrong with us, as a people, that we are so polarized that we're missing the forest because of the trees? What else can her death be from other than domestic terrorism? It cannot be labeled as anything else than domestic terrorism and I wish that this would be focused on more in the media and by Trump. A person fucking died! And others injured.

Secondly: Yes, there are very bad people in the extreme right. They are just consumed with hateful ideology and actions. We need to consider these people with just as much disdain as we consider any other bad people/groups of people. And every conservative or right-leaning person on this site needs to admit it and not say things like "Well, no matter what Trump says/does... ". That is wrong-headed in every way. I think it's time to stop it. Just... stop.

Third: Do these people like the KKK deserve a right to protest? Sure. Do they have a right to their ideology? Yes. Do they have the right to violence and murder? Absolutely not.

Fourth: Does the left have the same kinds of people? Yes.

Fifth: I don't think that the things Trump said was inherently wrong and I actually agree with a lot of what he said. But, he was reckless and insensitive in his delivery. He could have very easily addressed some of his points at a later time - such as the violence of the left - and it would have most likely had a deeper impact.

Ok, that's enough fairness for one day lol

Well stated.

CenterBHSFan;1866894 wrote:I actually just finished watching the presser from last night. Was what he said wrong? That both sides were violent? Were his words just bad timing? Were they reckless?

As I sit here typing this out I'm trying to keep my personal bias concerning Trump shoved to the back of my mind. Nearly impossible, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

First and foremost, somebody died in this mess. Murdered is the correct word. For what? Because she thought differently than somebody else. What is wrong with us, as a people, that we are so polarized that we're missing the forest because of the trees? What else can her death be from other than domestic terrorism? It cannot be labeled as anything else than domestic terrorism and I wish that this would be focused on more in the media and by Trump. A person fucking died! And others injured.

Secondly: Yes, there are very bad people in the extreme right. They are just consumed with hateful ideology and actions. We need to consider these people with just as much disdain as we consider any other bad people/groups of people. And every conservative or right-leaning person on this site needs to admit it and not say things like "Well, no matter what Trump says/does... ". That is wrong-headed in every way. I think it's time to stop it. Just... stop.

Third: Do these people like the KKK deserve a right to protest? Sure. Do they have a right to their ideology? Yes. Do they have the right to violence and murder? Absolutely not.

Fourth: Does the left have the same kinds of people? Yes.

Fifth: I don't think that the things Trump said was inherently wrong and I actually agree with a lot of what he said. But, he was reckless and insensitive in his delivery. He could have very easily addressed some of his points at a later time - such as the violence of the left - and it would have most likely had a deeper impact.

Ok, that's enough fairness for one day lol

Reps.

CenterBHSFan;1866894 wrote:I actually just finished watching the presser from last night. Was what he said wrong? That both sides were violent? Were his words just bad timing? Were they reckless?

As I sit here typing this out I'm trying to keep my personal bias concerning Trump shoved to the back of my mind. Nearly impossible, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

First and foremost, somebody died in this mess. Murdered is the correct word. For what? Because she thought differently than somebody else. What is wrong with us, as a people, that we are so polarized that we're missing the forest because of the trees? What else can her death be from other than domestic terrorism? It cannot be labeled as anything else than domestic terrorism and I wish that this would be focused on more in the media and by Trump. A person fucking died! And others injured.

Secondly: Yes, there are very bad people in the extreme right. They are just consumed with hateful ideology and actions. We need to consider these people with just as much disdain as we consider any other bad people/groups of people. And every conservative or right-leaning person on this site needs to admit it and not say things like "Well, no matter what Trump says/does... ". That is wrong-headed in every way. I think it's time to stop it. Just... stop.

Third: Do these people like the KKK deserve a right to protest? Sure. Do they have a right to their ideology? Yes. Do they have the right to violence and murder? Absolutely not.

Fourth: Does the left have the same kinds of people? Yes.

Fifth: I don't think that the things Trump said was inherently wrong and I actually agree with a lot of what he said. But, he was reckless and insensitive in his delivery. He could have very easily addressed some of his points at a later time - such as the violence of the left - and it would have most likely had a deeper impact.

Ok, that's enough fairness for one day lol

I'll echo the well stated and reps.

The press conference was a shit show. The whole point of it was to roll out his new EO on reforming the Environmental and NEPA process for infrastructure. The policy is actually a good one as the NEPA process is way too complex and takes way too long. He was supposed to have quick remarks and let the Transportation Secretary and Treasury Secretary talk and take questions, but that failed.....
Trump should have went all Belichick and said this is only about infrastructure.
We watched it at work as we focus on infrastructure and my boss and I just shook our heads as we knew the whole message was just lost.

Trumps's initial statement on the congressional shooting. No mention of terrorism. Nor condemnation of any leftist groups. Media outrage zero.

[video=youtube;Za3UcXwqe9E][/video]

You know... I just don't understand why the media is acting like somebody poured acid in their eyes and slapped their mother. The fact that they are filled with self-righteous anger because Trump said that the left was guilty of violence in Charlottesville, also...
What? That's a fact.
Van Jones crying. Really?!

I can only sigh and roll my eyes as the notion keeps returning to my mind that because of crap like this... and everybody who acts like this... they will be the reason why Trump gets reelected. And I can only imagine how he'll be smug and condescending when he thanks them for helping him get reelected. Man, they've just got to get their shit together...

CenterBHSFan;1867102 wrote:You know... I just don't understand why the media is acting like somebody poured acid in their eyes and slapped their mother. The fact that they are filled with self-righteous anger because Trump said that the left was guilty of violence in Charlottesville, also...
What? That's a fact.
Van Jones crying. Really?!

I can only sigh and roll my eyes as the notion keeps returning to my mind that because of crap like this... and everybody who acts like this... they will be the reason why Trump gets reelected. And I can only imagine how he'll be smug and condescending when he thanks them for helping him get reelected. Man, they've just got to get their shit together...

This. The media bias against trump and the republicans will surely help them win again.

Spock;1867105 wrote:This. The media bias against trump and the republicans will surely help them win again.

trump has done nothing to expand his support, if he makes it through his term he will be routed in the next election.

CenterBHSFan;1867102 wrote:You know... I just don't understand why the media is acting like somebody poured acid in their eyes and slapped their mother. The fact that they are filled with self-righteous anger because Trump said that the left was guilty of violence in Charlottesville, also...
What? That's a fact.
Van Jones crying. Really?!

I can only sigh and roll my eyes as the notion keeps returning to my mind that because of crap like this... and everybody who acts like this... they will be the reason why Trump gets reelected. And I can only imagine how he'll be smug and condescending when he thanks them for helping him get reelected. Man, they've just got to get their shit together...

Spot on.