FatHobbit;1807726 wrote:Too many people treat politics like sports. My team won, your team lost. Goooooooooooooo team

I agree with that, but that goes all the way up to the top, in my opinion. The politicians have their conventions, which are little more than glorified pep rallies (GOOOOO TEAM!!!!) that last 4 days or so. And then there are the commercials, which tend to run along the lines of "my opponent sucks the big one, vote for me to win!" Every time two of them (or more, ie: the primaries) debate each other, you have 5 gazillion media outlets, blogs, etc. falling over themselves to proclaim a winner.

I think that all leads to a certain degree of conditioning where people get programmed to look at things like it's more of a football game than, you know, electing the person who will be playing a big role in running shit over the next few years. The whole "dumbing down" effect which is why we get people like Trump and Hillary in the big championship game...er, I mean presidential election.

I think it's time for BS to untie his wrists from his ankles. He's inviting way too much abuse at this point.

QuakerOats;1807704 wrote:You must like that authority bs ....... your new talking point.

I am voting for Trump, and I hate authority, especially federal authority emanaing from marxist officials. I guess I am must be in the stupid redneck group then.

It's hardly new. Phrased differently, perhaps, and now statistically supported, but hardly new.

As for how much you hate authority, I'd be curious in what ways you differ from the traditional Republican authoritarian. The two main parties talk a good game about freedoms, but they each tend to have their special hobby horses.

- Foreign military intervention is authoritarian. Do you support our involvement overseas subjecting other nations and their citizenry to our authority?
- Placing the burden of proof on a suspect to prove innocence instead of law enforcement and the courts to prove guilt is authoritarian. Do you support police being allowed to monitor without a warrant? Stop and frisk? Law enforcement militarization? Do you default to siding with the officer for shooting a suspect without any physical evidence to suggest the suspect was a threat?
- Racial or religious profiling is not only authoritarian, but unconstitutional, as well. Do you support any of Trump's articulated policies regarding legal immigrants or visa holders from the Middle East or who may practice the Muslim faith?
- Monitoring, restricting, or criminalizing private consumption of anything is authoritarian. Do you support laws against recreational drug use?
- Dictating the legal agreement we call "marriage" by controlling which consenting adults may enter into it is authoritarian. Do/Did you support the legal defining of marriage as only able to take place between a man and a woman?
- Forcing one person to subject their body for the use of another against their will is authoritarian. Do you support a woman's right to decide whether or not a fetus is permitted to use her body?

Or are we just talking about taxes?

QuakerOats;1807722 wrote:[...] defenders of the Constitution

Yeah, except that whole 'freedom of religion' silliness. That's just nonsense, and we shouldn't let that get in the way of some good ol'-fashioned rounding up and deportation of those Muslims.

QuakerOats;1807722 wrote:effective in defending The People

Which people? All the people? Only the majority of the people? Only a portion of the people?

QuakerOats;1807722 wrote:[...] and supportive of economic policy that allowed for growth and opportunity.

Like, for example, allowing companies to look overseas for competitive partners, even if it means American jobs are lost?

FatHobbit;1807726 wrote:Too many people treat politics like sports. My team won, your team lost. Goooooooooooooo team

That or horse races. "I picked the winner! What's my prize?"

majorspark;1807731 wrote:Time for another review. Obama could not have been more wrong and Romney right.

Yeah well, you're mean .....................and probably a racist.

CenterBHSFan;1807736 wrote:I think it's time for BS to untie his wrists from his ankles. He's inviting way too much abuse at this point.

At least allow him to come up for air, and his chardonnay and brie.

O-Trap;1807737 wrote:...

- Foreign military intervention is authoritarian. Do you support our involvement overseas subjecting other nations and their citizenry to our authority?
- Placing the burden of proof on a suspect to prove innocence instead of law enforcement and the courts to prove guilt is authoritarian. Do you support police being allowed to monitor without a warrant? Stop and frisk? Law enforcement militarization? Do you default to siding with the officer for shooting a suspect without any physical evidence to suggest the suspect was a threat?
- Racial or religious profiling is not only authoritarian, but unconstitutional, as well. Do you support any of Trump's articulated policies regarding legal immigrants or visa holders from the Middle East or who may practice the Muslim faith?
- Monitoring, restricting, or criminalizing private consumption of anything is authoritarian. Do you support laws against recreational drug use?
- Dictating the legal agreement we call "marriage" by controlling which consenting adults may enter into it is authoritarian. Do/Did you support the legal defining of marriage as only able to take place between a man and a woman?
- Forcing one person to subject their body for the use of another against their will is authoritarian. Do you support a woman's right to decide whether or not a fetus is permitted to use her body?

...

I support most all of those with the exception of just a few.

Con_Alma;1807781 wrote:I support most all of those with the exception of just a few.

That may be, but the list was specifically in response to the claim that QO hates authority.

O-Trap;1807850 wrote:That may be, but the list was specifically in response to the claim that QO hates authority.

Yes, I understood that. I wasn't trying to suggest that QQ is or is not different from the Repub party because of how "I" feel about those question. I truly was just adding my thoughts on the questions....mostly because of the creative way the question were asked to try and make your point.

Con_Alma;1807852 wrote:Yes, I understood that. I wasn't trying to suggest that QQ is or is not different from the Repub party because of how "I" feel about those question. I truly was just adding my thoughts on the questions....mostly because of the creative way the question were asked to try and make your point.

Ah, I see. Fair enough.

O-Trap;1807850 wrote:That may be, but the list was specifically in response to the claim that QO hates authority.

I didn't forget you ...........just heading out of town. Give 'em hell this weekend.

QuakerOats;1807867 wrote:I didn't forget you ...........just heading out of town. Give 'em hell this weekend.

Psh ... real life ...

I can never vote for Trump. Three student deferments and then a medical deferment to avoid serving in the military. Then he has the nerve to disrespect our military personnel who were prisoner's of war and the families of those who lost their lives serving our nation. Trump should never be commander in chief.

ppaw1999;1807944 wrote:I can never vote for Trump. Three student deferments and then a medical deferment to avoid serving in the military. Then he has the nerve to disrespect our military personnel who were prisoner's of war and the families of those who lost their lives serving our nation. Trump should never be commander in chief.

Listen up pp you have no idea the political football of the sixties and seventies the atmosphere of the society the politics the war in Vietnam you have no idea what was going on many of my friends have talked about going to Canada many tried for medical deferment are they a coward maybe to consider trump a coward they and he had their own reasons and it was up to them to make that choice and live with it. It was a terrible time in our history we saw violence on the TV from racial problems we saw violence on TV from Vietnam moms and dads were scared students graduating whee iscared there was a climate of unrest all over so it's not up to you to make that calls. John McCain is a war hero served our country well but John McCain has been running the political lap dance for too long and maybe he's lost sight of his actual real values and morals and the understanding of what it is to be a real American with some of his decisions. as for Trump disrespecting the family of a war hero he didn't disrespect the war hero he disrespected the family a family who was the lawyer for immigration of potential terrorist
Hillary Clinton Secretary of State should have known the code of every military soldier (we leave no one behind )she left 4 men to die at her fingertips she had every resource is America's Great America has and she chose to let them die .... That not presidentialthat a crime

Belly35;1808103 wrote:Listen up pp you have no idea the political football of the sixties and seventies the atmosphere of the society the politics the war in Vietnam you have no idea what was going on many of my friends have talked about going to Canada many tried for medical deferment are they a coward maybe to consider trump a coward they and he had their own reasons and it was up to them to make that choice and live with it. It was a terrible time in our history we saw violence on the TV from racial problems we saw violence on TV from Vietnam moms and dads were scared students graduating whee iscared there was a climate of unrest all over so it's not up to you to make that calls. John McCain is a war hero served our country well but John McCain has been running the political lap dance for too long and maybe he's lost sight of his actual real values and morals and the understanding of what it is to be a real American with some of his decisions. as for Trump disrespecting the family of a war hero he didn't disrespect the war hero he disrespected the family a family who was the lawyer for immigration of potential terrorist
Hillary Clinton Secretary of State should have known the code of every military soldier (we leave no one behind )she left 4 men to die at her fingertips she had every resource is America's Great America has and she chose to let them die .... That not presidentialthat a crime

I assume you would, then, defend Bill Clinton for dodging the draft as well?

O-Trap;1808106 wrote:I assume you would, then, defend Bill Clinton for dodging the draft as well?

defend no ..if that the call some people made in life only they have to justify the reasoning ... at that time in my life I was trying to survive the VC and protect my guys, prepared to leave no one behind. There was a draft and I was called just like many others in my family. I could have appealed and gotten a deferment being the only child, give away at birth but I did not ...take that oppertuity. That was a long time ago but Hillary actions are in the now times and to let soldiers die, make no attempt, lie and tell the die soldiers parents she will get to the truth when she knew along she was the failure, incompendent and problem to protect her ass and to benifit her agenda. What worst lying to parents of soldier you just quit on and let them die, lying about the reason or telling some Hillary paid immigration lawyer who son died in combat ... You and your wife just sold out your son honor... On national tv for your professional profit.

Belly35;1808103 wrote:Listen up pp you have no idea the political football of the sixties and seventies the atmosphere of the society the politics the war in Vietnam you have no idea what was going on many of my friends have talked about going to Canada many tried for medical deferment are they a coward maybe to consider trump a coward they and he had their own reasons and it was up to them to make that choice and live with it. It was a terrible time in our history we saw violence on the TV from racial problems we saw violence on TV from Vietnam moms and dads were scared students graduating whee iscared there was a climate of unrest all over so it's not up to you to make that calls. John McCain is a war hero served our country well but John McCain has been running the political lap dance for too long and maybe he's lost sight of his actual real values and morals and the understanding of what it is to be a real American with some of his decisions. as for Trump disrespecting the family of a war hero he didn't disrespect the war hero he disrespected the family a family who was the lawyer for immigration of potential terrorist
Hillary Clinton Secretary of State should have known the code of every military soldier (we leave no one behind )she left 4 men to die at her fingertips she had every resource is America's Great America has and she chose to let them die .... That not presidentialthat a crime

Guess again lBelly I am 65 years old so yes I know the 60's and the 70's. I served in the military and resent Trump's comments. Trump has no connection with the middle class, has never had to work a day in his life and has no idea how to relate with the common man. As for Benghazi the compound that the ambassador chose to be at was attacked by a force of around 150 armed assailants. A larger security force would only have meant more Americans would have died. Congress could not find Clinton guilty, please bring your evidence and you prove it. I have no love for Clinton but she will have my vote if it will help to prevent Trump from being elected. I suppose the 241 Marines who were killed in Lebanon could have been saved too with a couple of more security personnel. Yes I remember the 80's too. Do you blame Reagan? I voted for him twice so I must be blamed too.

Have a nice weekend Belly35. I'm going away for the weekend so we will have to agree to disagree. Sounds like we are a couple of old farts on opposite sides of the fence for this election. God bless you my brother in arms and thank you for your service. I have no ill will toward those who avoided the draft, I just don't appreciate those who did disrespecting the ones that didn't. No one who has worn a uniform in service for our country should be spit on by a fellow countryman. More ugly commentary of the Viet Nam era.

PP
Let's stay on point there's no reason to bring Ronald Reagan and George Bush those are issues and topics for another time let's talk about now now would be from Benghazi and the appointment of Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State to the present let's talk about only Hillary and Trump so let's not get involved in other issues that are not related to the running of the presidency of the United States the Benghazi issue in Congress the fat lady has not stopped singing yet we can see today that emails private servers Federal Security and Clinton Foundation other issues are now presenting themselves before the public even a lawsuit by the family of those who were killed in Benghazi have now surfaced. If you're looking for a middle-class American to be running for the presidency good luck with that take a look at the Congress and their Senators most politicians are millionaires or more good luck finding a common man to be able to run for president Donald Trump is the closest thing we could possibly come to it a non career politician prepared to shake up the system and change the fiber of today's American politics in Washington DC vote for Hillary would be the same thing that we've had for the past 8 years and longer I vote for Donald Trump would be a change to American politics it would demonstrate in America is fed up with career politicians America is tired of the same same politicians saying one thing and doing something else it will also be a demonstration that we are tired of lying and cheating and incompetency of the good-old-boy agenda it's time for change and change is now if we want to have our government back to We the People now is the time. I guess the question you have to ask yourself and maybe the American people have to ask themselves is it better for 4 years of the trump card or an additional 12 years of Obama failed agenda and Hillary's lying and cheating and incompetency as a leader or a head of anything. As a retired military personnel I want a president who's going to respect our Armed Forces Donald Trump is that person Hillary Clinton through her career her writings and even recently in the documentary movie indicated she has no respect for the military that is a sad sad situation in today's time.

Belly35;1808158 wrote:As a retired military personnel I want a president who's going to respect our Armed Forces Donald Trump is that person

Is John McCain a war hero? Or does getting captured preclude him from that category?

FatHobbit;1808249 wrote:Is John McCain a war hero? Or does getting captured preclude him from that category?

there an old saying .. The only true hero is dead because they can't disappoint you later. I don't agree with that
John McCain servied his country, endured hardship, pain and suffering deserves the respect, honor and title hero. But that does not exclude him from ridicule over his political deeds. I can disagree, challenge and argue with McCain or any veteran but that doesn't lessen my respect for his military action and courage.

Then you must love Secretary John Kerry.

Devils Advocate;1808261 wrote:Then you must love Secretary John Kerry.

John Kerry has cast his reputation as a liar what he has done in his military service is Honorable but once you lie about something you lose that respect and are open to ridicule and descent

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

I still have my Vietnam veterans against the war card years ago there was confusion who I am and what I have done

Belly35;1808119 wrote:defend no ..if that the call some people made in life only they have to justify the reasoning ... at that time in my life I was trying to survive the VC and protect my guys, prepared to leave no one behind. There was a draft and I was called just like many others in my family. I could have appealed and gotten a deferment being the only child, give away at birth but I did not ...take that oppertuity. That was a long time ago but Hillary actions are in the now times and to let soldiers die, make no attempt, lie and tell the die soldiers parents she will get to the truth when she knew along she was the failure, incompendent and problem to protect her ass and to benifit her agenda. What worst lying to parents of soldier you just quit on and let them die, lying about the reason or telling some Hillary paid immigration lawyer who son died in combat ... You and your wife just sold out your son honor... On national tv for your professional profit.

But, uh, Otrap's question was in response to you typing a paragraph essentially justifying Trump's getting deferments and not serving. A little consistency would be nice.

But Bengazi dammit!

Belly35;1808250 wrote:there an old saying .. The only true hero is dead because they can't disappoint you later. I don't agree with that
John McCain servied his country, endured hardship, pain and suffering deserves the respect, honor and title hero. But that does not exclude him from ridicule over his political deeds. I can disagree, challenge and argue with McCain or any veteran but that doesn't lessen my respect for his military action and courage.

Trump's comments on McCain, however, were not against his political policy. They were in reference to his military service and the mere fact that he lost the election. By your response it seems almost as though you aren't aware of what he said, so here:

"I don't like losers. He's not a war hero. He's a 'war hero' because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured, okay?"

Doesn't sound like a candidate who respects the sacrifices from men or women in uniform, to me. Perhaps you think that's what respect sounds like, but I daresay that if you do, we have drastically different definitions of respect."

Heretic;1808295 wrote:But, uh, Otrap's question was in response to you typing a paragraph essentially justifying Trump's getting deferments and not serving. A little consistency would be nice.

I just chalked it up to the assumption that I misunderstood what Belly said. I thought that was probably a fair assumption.