sleeper
Posts: 27,879
May 6, 2016 10:51am
He's an idiot so by any real measure of who won the debate he would come in dead last(maybe above Carson). The reality is though, "winning" a debate is merely about being the most entertaining and belittling your opponents. No one is beating Trump at that game and Clinton has no chance of "winning" any debate. I am curious as to what her strategy in the debates is going to be. If she gets dragged down into the mud like the Republicans, she will get stomped.Fab4Runner;1795042 wrote:I thought he performed terribly in basically every debate, but I was looking for actual policy, etc. and not just insults.
K
knightflyer150
Posts: 491
May 7, 2016 9:26am
I'm a registered Independent and it has been a long time since I let politics draw me in; I vote my belief structure and competency of candidate, not party-line. I despise Trump's antics and policy, and though I view Clinton's ethical issues to be a deal breaker in any other year, I find those to be easy to overlook when juxtaposed to Trump's.
That said, am I over-simplifying fying things by asking why the GOP doesn't find their youngest star that is fiscally-conservative and social moderate, then prep him as the future? Is the right that concerned with social conservative stance?
That said, am I over-simplifying fying things by asking why the GOP doesn't find their youngest star that is fiscally-conservative and social moderate, then prep him as the future? Is the right that concerned with social conservative stance?
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
May 7, 2016 10:14am
There's no law that says she HAS to debate Trump.sleeper;1795043 wrote:He's an idiot so by any real measure of who won the debate he would come in dead last(maybe above Carson). The reality is though, "winning" a debate is merely about being the most entertaining and belittling your opponents. No one is beating Trump at that game and Clinton has no chance of "winning" any debate. I am curious as to what her strategy in the debates is going to be. If she gets dragged down into the mud like the Republicans, she will get stomped.
B
BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
May 7, 2016 2:36pm
The best rising star in Marco Rubio got stomped by Trump in his home state...knightflyer150;1795115 wrote:I'm a registered Independent and it has been a long time since I let politics draw me in; I vote my belief structure and competency of candidate, not party-line. I despise Trump's antics and policy, and though I view Clinton's ethical issues to be a deal breaker in any other year, I find those to be easy to overlook when juxtaposed to Trump's.
That said, am I over-simplifying fying things by asking why the GOP doesn't find their youngest star that is fiscally-conservative and social moderate, then prep him as the future? Is the right that concerned with social conservative stance?
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
May 7, 2016 10:52pm
No. Many on the right voted for Trump who is by no means a social conservative.knightflyer150;1795115 wrote:Is the right that concerned with social conservative stance?
fish82
Posts: 4,111
May 8, 2016 6:37am
Agreed. It's in the democrat interest to continue humping the meme that the social conservatives have major influence...but the truth is that their clout was seriously declining even prior to the rise of Trump.majorspark;1795165 wrote:No. Many on the right voted for Trump who is by no means a social conservative.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
May 8, 2016 5:19pm
She won't forgo all debates but I could see her limiting them as much as possible.HitsRus;1795120 wrote:There's no law that says she HAS to debate Trump.
Spock
Posts: 2,853
May 8, 2016 7:47pm
So you would vote for someone that is going to break every law or not enforce them instead of voting for someone you say you despise because he wants to enforce the laws? great logic.knightflyer150;1795115 wrote:I'm a registered Independent and it has been a long time since I let politics draw me in; I vote my belief structure and competency of candidate, not party-line. I despise Trump's antics and policy, and though I view Clinton's ethical issues to be a deal breaker in any other year, I find those to be easy to overlook when juxtaposed to Trump's.
That said, am I over-simplifying fying things by asking why the GOP doesn't find their youngest star that is fiscally-conservative and social moderate, then prep him as the future? Is the right that concerned with social conservative stance?
K
knightflyer150
Posts: 491
May 9, 2016 10:50am
Interesting take on my very reasonable post. I'll clarify: I think Donald Trump is completely incompetent in every area, as well as a raging asshole. I think he will lie to meet whatever end he views as necessary. I think he would make a horrible president.Spock;1795208 wrote:So you would vote for someone that is going to break every law or not enforce them instead of voting for someone you say you despise because he wants to enforce the laws? great logic.
I think Hillary is unethical, but I view her as competent. I also think many politicians are unethical.
I can tell you are a Trump guy, so I won't argue with you. It's just not my thing.
Live long and prosper.
rrfan
Posts: 1,922
May 9, 2016 4:39pm
The problem I have with this conversation is the fact that you think Hillary is competent! I am not sure how anyone could really say that...based on what? If her name was not Clinton she would be heading to the clink not running for president. To each there own and Trump is by no means the greatest to ever run...but if you say pick between Hillary and anybody else on the planet I can't think of many I would not vote for to keep Hillary out of there.knightflyer150;1795235 wrote:Interesting take on my very reasonable post. I'll clarify: I think Donald Trump is completely incompetent in every area, as well as a raging asshole. I think he will lie to meet whatever end he views as necessary. I think he would make a horrible president.
I think Hillary is unethical, but I view her as competent. I also think many politicians are unethical.
I can tell you are a Trump guy, so I won't argue with you. It's just not my thing.
Live long and prosper.
There are a lot of things to not like about Trump but I will take a businessman over a crooked politician.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 9, 2016 5:02pm
And I would easily take him for the stark differences between the two related to the some of the biggest issues of the day. I already specifically outlined them in an earlier post. I am not a Trumpster, and I don't like the way he says a lot of things, but on the most important issues we face, he would be a thousand times better than the inept, lying, manipulative, money-laundering, phony bitch.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
May 9, 2016 8:39pm
I agree with that, but Trump is one of the few I would not vote for merrfan;1795293 wrote:but if you say pick between Hillary and anybody else on the planet I can't think of many I would not vote for to keep Hillary out of there.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 10, 2016 9:17am
Trump and clinton are even in the key swing states: OH, PA, FL.
And the real 'vetting' of clinton has yet to begin.
And the real 'vetting' of clinton has yet to begin.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
May 10, 2016 9:47am
Clinton can lose all three and still win if she holds the west (CO, NV, NM) and keeps VA and NC blue.QuakerOats;1795331 wrote:Trump and clinton are even in the key swing states: OH, PA, FL.
And the real 'vetting' of clinton has yet to begin.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 10, 2016 10:18am
No; if those 3 flip to R she loses, I believe; Trump would not even need VA.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
May 10, 2016 11:13am
http://www.270towin.com/QuakerOats;1795347 wrote:No; if those 3 flip to R she loses, I believe; Trump would not even need VA.
If she loses all three, yet maintains the west, VA, and NC she gets 276, enough to win.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
May 10, 2016 11:16am
So Trump is going to win Ohio but can't beat Kasich in the primary.
Right.
Right.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 10, 2016 11:24am
ptown_trojans_1;1795358 wrote:http://www.270towin.com/
If she loses all three, yet maintains the west, VA, and NC she gets 276, enough to win.
Yes, Trump would also need one more, like New Hampshire; then he would have 277 and she would have 271.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 10, 2016 11:27am
Quinnipiac poll -- Trump up 43 - 39 in Ohio among registered voters.sleeper;1795360 wrote:So Trump is going to win Ohio but can't beat Kasich in the primary.
Right.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
May 10, 2016 11:29am
In order to get to 270, Trump needs to win the big 3 states of OH, Penn, and FL , plus either VA or NC.
The math is really hard for me. He has the ability to do it, but he is starting from far behind.
The math is really hard for me. He has the ability to do it, but he is starting from far behind.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
May 10, 2016 11:51am
To be fair to Trump, the math was really hard for me when he announced his candidacy to beat out the rising stars of Rubio and Cruz. He crushed them.ptown_trojans_1;1795369 wrote:In order to get to 270, Trump needs to win the big 3 states of OH, Penn, and FL , plus either VA or NC.
The math is really hard for me. He has the ability to do it, but he is starting from far behind.
At this point, I don't bet against Trump. I certainly think he would be a disaster if elected as POTUS but I only get one vote.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 10, 2016 11:52am
NC was already red --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012
So with 206, add OH (18), FL (29), PA (20) = 273; then add NH (4) = 277.
It really boils down to about 3-4 states, with some outliers like VA and CO and maybe a couple others.
So with 206, add OH (18), FL (29), PA (20) = 273; then add NH (4) = 277.
It really boils down to about 3-4 states, with some outliers like VA and CO and maybe a couple others.
G
gut
Posts: 15,058
May 10, 2016 11:57am
Whomever we elect, we will deserve.
Don't underestimate Trump's ability to turn out the stupid vote (although that seems unfair when the alternative is Hillary)
Don't underestimate Trump's ability to turn out the stupid vote (although that seems unfair when the alternative is Hillary)
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
May 10, 2016 12:12pm
True, I counted NC as blue, it was red in 12 and was blue in 08.QuakerOats;1795374 wrote:NC was already red --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012
So with 206, add OH (18), FL (29), PA (20) = 273; then add NH (4) = 277.
It really boils down to about 3-4 states, with some outliers like VA and CO and maybe a couple others.
It does boil down to a few states.
Either way, Trump has to swing more states red than blue. He has the ability to do it, and has the time to do it.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
May 10, 2016 12:39pm
Isn't it only like 20% of people who typically vote? I could see a scenario where there is an unusual voter turnout in either direction because people either buy into Trump's message or they want to stop him.gut;1795375 wrote:Whomever we elect, we will deserve.
Don't underestimate Trump's ability to turn out the stupid vote (although that seems unfair when the alternative is Hillary)
I have quite a few friends on Facebook that I suspect don't typically vote that are supporting Trump. (I also would not be surprised if they still don't vote)