15, 19.6, doesn't matter we are still talking more than a TRILLION more taxes PER YEAR!ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776935 wrote:No one knows what his tax hike is and who it affects because he hasn't released details. I've seen 19.6. I've seen 15. It's all conjecture at this point. But I do love hearing how all of you already know what it is lol. It is very entertaining.
dude... you obviously looked it up at one point to come up with the Washington Post. it literally took 1 search on google to come up with the source.. you didn't think to use google?jmog;1776962 wrote:Blatantly lied? Come on Zwick, I had it on my laptop as a jpg and said I THOUGHT it was from Wash Post. I never said for sure because I couldn't remember.
Where does ACA stand now? It's struggling and will only get worse, thus why single payer is a discussion right now.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776961 wrote:What exactly would you like me to respond to specifically? That's his plans have no chance of working or liberals ideology's "come crashing down" when faced with reality? The ambiguity of the latter makes it impossible to address for one... do you have specific ones you'd like to discuss?
His plans certainly do have a chance of working. Will it work with the current congress? Nope.. no chance in hell. If republicans lose the senate does it? Hard telling but I'd venture a yes. Remember, we were told ACA had no chance in hell also.. where does that stand now?
What do you think healthcare right now is doing to the middle class? no affect on it? non issue? come on man.jmog;1776963 wrote:15, 19.6, doesn't matter we are still talking more than a TRILLION more taxes PER YEAR!
That is literal insanity to believe that won't severely hurt the middle class.
Yeah if you are getting your news sources from HuffPo, you might as well be getting your news from Fox News.jmog;1776918 wrote:I listed more than just Forbes and WSJ, I also listed Wash Post and CNN which both have a liberal lean. You just so happened to ignore those and pick out the 2 that have a slight conservative lean? I can't imagine why?
You may have a more rounded view on things if you don't subject yourself to something so obviously biased as the HuffPo.
I liken that to QO who only posts crap from Drudge, Fox News, etc.
Of course he is going to say that. Democrats have been playing the class warfare card to get easy votes from stupid people. Reality tells us differently. Congrats on being hoodwinked by simple political tricks designed for the poor and stupid.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776938 wrote:There's one thing we all know.. there will be a tax hike. It will affect everyone including middle class. He's admitted this as so. He says it will only slightly burden the middle class and heavily weight on the top bracket..
We will see won't we?
This has been the narrative for years. I'm OPEN to the idea of adjusting tax rates but the idea that taxing the ultra wealthy is going solve all our financial problems and pay for all these social programs is DELUSIONAL at best.SportsAndLady;1776939 wrote: You're essentially like the hundreds of thousands of liberals out there that think huge tax hikes on "billionaires" is the solution to fixing our debt problem and funding other liberal agendas set forth by our socialist president.
It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare/caid gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.like_that;1776965 wrote:Where does ACA stand now? It's struggling and will only get worse, thus why single payer is a discussion right now.
I just want to know where your logic is that makes you think his plans won't cost much to the middle class and how the rich will be able to support all of it. You keep bringing up other nations. Just like how every state in this country has their own set of characteristics every country does as well. Just because it works in whichever European country you're referring to (debatable) doesn't mean it will work here.
that might be a point if someone was suggesting abandoning Capitalism for socialism.jmog;1776975 wrote:All one needs to know is look at the fact that the European Union. The best capitalistic country (Germany) had to bail out most of the socialistic countries so that the whole Union didn't crash.
If Greece, Italy, Scandinavian states, etc are what you strive the US to be, then by all means vote for Sanders. However, realize the economic blight most of them have been in recently. Look at the collapse of the USSR. It collapsed due to financial strains, not because of some war.
History will repeat itself if the US keeps heading down this road, our financial security as a nation will collapse as well.
Our health care is more expenive for a number of reasons.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776974 wrote:It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.
Have you read/seen Sanders wants/policies?ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776976 wrote:that might be a point if someone was suggesting abandoning Capitalism for socialism.
It's also better here too. Yeah quality is kinda important.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776974 wrote:It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare/caid gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.
jmog;1776978 wrote:Have you read/seen Sanders wants/policies?
Your number 1 reason is the biggest reason its so expensive and also the biggest reason a single payer system makes sense.jmog;1776977 wrote:Our health care is more expenive for a number of reasons.
1. Unpaid medical bills by the uninsured raising rates on others.
2. Malpractice litigation causing high malpractice insurance rates.
3. We subsidize the rest of the world. The vast majority of all medical research is done here, because the money is better for top end researchers. The pharmaceuticals pass that cost to us in the US but not/can not pass it to those in Europe etc.
it it has nothing to do with the BS rates that Medicare/Medicaid pays. If you believe they are "negotiated" with the medical providers rather than dictated then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Those "negotiated" BS rates are part of the reason those of us WITH insurance pay so much, to offset the actual costs.
Yes, and they align fairly well with the socialist countries of Europe. Don't be dishonest and act like they don't.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776980 wrote:Yes.. have you?
I believe studies have shown that #3 is the largest followed by the Medicare/caid dictated rates, then the unpaid bills followed by the litigation.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776981 wrote:Your number 1 reason is the biggest reason its so expensive and also the biggest reason a single payer system makes sense.
jmog;1776983 wrote:I believe studies have shown that #3 is the largest followed by the Medicare/caid dictated rates, then the unpaid bills followed by the litigation.
So no, the facts don't support a single payer being the best solution to lower costs.
just stop it. no ones suggesting that.sleeper;1776984 wrote:Man only if the government ran healthcare, airlines, hotels, grocery stores, cell phone companies, the oil industry and pretty much every means of production; think of all the money we would save!
Signed,
Bernie Sanders
"Not a Socialist, just a Democratic Socialist"
You must not know much about Drudge ---- it is an amalgamation of direct links to vast arrays of news articles and opinion pieces from reputable news outlets and authors. The credibility of said news agencies and contributors is quite high. Drudge himself does not write commentary. Hope this helps.SportsAndLady;1776946 wrote:Basically if you read Fox News and Drudge, you're QO. If you read HuffPo and MSNBC, you're zwick.
That tend to be mainly conservative in nature. With over-the-top headlines written by a tabloid guy to draw in the rubes, as you demonstrate regularly with your cutting and pasting of links.QuakerOats;1776987 wrote:You must not know much about Drudge ---- it is an amalgamation of direct links to vast arrays of news articles and opinion pieces from reputable news outlets and authors. The credibility of said news agencies and contributors is quite high. Drudge himself does not write commentary. Hope this helps.
I am talking total health care costs regardless of where they come from.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776985 wrote:I'm talking strictly the government, not your premiums.
