Al Bundy;1743653 wrote:It just depends whether you want objective or subjective stats. "How tough a play is to make" is a subjective stat.

Thank you for your implicit admission you don't know how advanced baseball metrics are measured. It's not subjective, each batted ball is measured and compared to batted balls from the past.

This is just an explanation of outfield stats, but maybe it will enlighten you that it's not a bunch of people sitting in a room deciding "what's tough", it's a statistical based model based on the actual output of what happened on the field.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-kansas-city-royals-san-diego-padres-outfield-defense-lessons/

Scroll down here for a breakdown of Machado v Arenado when it comes to defensive plays. Consider this a primer on infield stats

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-who-ya-got-manny-machado-nolan-arenado-third-base-young-star-edition/

Bundy, this conversation would have just gone a lot smoother if you had just admitted you're a neophyte when it comes to advanced baseball metrics and how they are calculated.

lhslep134;1743660 wrote:Thank you for your implicit admission you don't know how advanced baseball metrics are measured. It's not subjective, each batted ball is measured and compared to batted balls from the past.

This is just an explanation of outfield stats, but maybe it will enlighten you that it's not a bunch of people sitting in a room deciding "what's tough", it's a statistical based model based on the actual output of what happened on the field.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-kansas-city-royals-san-diego-padres-outfield-defense-lessons/

Scroll down here for a breakdown of Machado v Arenado when it comes to defensive plays. Consider this a primer on infield stats

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-who-ya-got-manny-machado-nolan-arenado-third-base-young-star-edition/

I know how they work. I am just saying they have demonstrated very little correlation with the teams that win in the decade and half that they have been used. Out of the teams that rely highly on them, only the Red Sox have won. Many of the teams that rely highly on them have sucked. If Boston and Oakland had won the most, maybe you would have a point, but teams that use them or don't use them are just as likely to win it all. In fact, more teams that don't use them to a large degree have won.

lhslep134;1743659 wrote:Please stop the irrelevant deflection and answer the question: how do your stats tell a more accurate story than the ones cited by Laley and I?

I'm not sure how run differential is not relevant. Look back over the history of baseball, and it is very highly correlated to the team that wins the division (or pennant before there were divisions). I think you will struggle to find any stat that has a higher correlation.

Al Bundy;1743664 wrote:I'm not sure how run differential is not relevant. Look back over the history of baseball, and it is very highly correlated to the team that wins the division (or pennant before there were divisions). I think you will struggle to find any stat that has a higher correlation.

Are you always this dense or just pretending to be? Your post is a completely irrelevant response to mine. My question revolves around your failed hypothesis about Indians pitching and we cited fielding dependent pitching numbers to bolster our case

Your response of run differential not only ignores my question, but now adds an additional variable, offensive performance, which has 0% to do with pitching.

lhslep134;1743667 wrote:Are you always this dense or just pretending to be? Your post is a completely irrelevant response to mine. My question revolves around your failed hypothesis about Indians pitching and we cited fielding dependent pitching numbers to bolster our case

Your response of run differential not only ignores my question, but now adds an additional variable, offensive performance, which has 0% to do with pitching.

The bottom line is winning games. Bob Feller said the most important stat for a pitcher is wins because that is really the goal. He would say that if your team was only going to score 2 runs, you had to perform at a higher level and only give up 0 or 1 runs. Feller said that one of the weaknesses of modern pitches is that they do no prepare themselves to have the proper endurance and pacing to finish games. This is very true with this tribe staff. There are too many cases where they turn it over to the bullpen instead of having the toughness to finish it. Stats cannot measure who has that killer instinct and who doesn't. In post #19, you said it is a crapshoot who wins. That is saying that none of the stats matter.

Tribe has tied it in the seventh....with a chance to add more. Chisenhall with a double following a Gomes single.......looking for a little 2 out magic.....and Bourn walks to load the bases.
C'mon Mike Aviles......

waiting for pitching change....Salazar with another Stellar outing. 1 run one 1 hit...and 1 big Indian error (Urshela)
...and Aviles grounds out to end the inning

Scrabble traded.

Gardens: Sands brought back!

Salazar awesome. End of 8 at 1-1 and hopefully comes out for the 9th.

Gives up 1 hit and is taken out with a 2-1 lead. SMH

Ball game 2-1. Chisenhall and Bourn heroes.

BRF out.

#darby/ironman

Chiz is back and figures prominently in the win. I've always liked Lonnie and Bourn. I hope these guys have figured it out.
Streaky Tribe going for 4 in a row today.

another anemic offensive attack last nite . .....Lonnie Chisenhall's solo HR was the only run and the lone bright spot. Chisenhall, who is now playing RF, fired a strike to the plate to cut off 1 Oakland run, also.

The only time an Indian runner reached 2nd base was in the 8th when Bourn and Kipnis reached base, but were stranded when Pomerantz K'd both Lindor and Brantley.

Tribe gets the bases loaded and 1 out in the 1st inning, and only gets one run on a Sands' sac fly. They lose in 10th 2-1.

Runs by game for the Tribe. Last 11.

1
0
3
1
4
1
12
3
2
1
1


29 in last 11. 2.63/game. Take out the 12 spot....1.7 runs per game.

Thread continuation.......................Tribe gets 3 for Kluber top of the 1st.............Angels coming to bat.

^^^^^ Just posted a new thread, Bro!

I'm so there!