isadore;1695217 wrote:America benefits from an educated and skilled population. People are unable to afford post secondary education. It should be provided to them without cost as primary and secondary education are.

unreal that people would type this. College is a privilege not a right.

Ytowngirlinfla;1695208 wrote:Want a free education. Join the military.

this

isadore;1695215 wrote:gosh a ruddies many middle class people have the resources to send their children to private school, but chose to send their children to public school. You and members of the middle class are taxed to support these schools. You don't see the benefit of paying for people to go to those schools who could afford to go elsewhere.

That has nothing to do with the questions I have asked. More deflection?

I am aware of the benefits of education.

Can you tell me the benefits of paying for collegiate services for those people already able and willing to pay for them?

Spock;1695223 wrote:unreal that people would type this. College is a privilege not a right.

Gosh is more distant past education was seen as a privilege not a right. And it was only available to the clergy and the aristocracy. As society became more complex and sophisticated it expanded. In the Antebellum South it was seen as a privilege and not extended to slaves and poor whites. In the late 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century secondary education was seen as a privilege and schooling for most ended at 6[SUP]th[/SUP] or 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade. But as society became more complex and freer, public education was extended to secondary school In our technological age with its increasing stratified social structure free public education should be extended to all who want it if our America is to grow and if it is fulfill its claim of being the land of opportunity. Only the privileged, the greedy and the selfish oppose it as they have done throughout history.

Con_Alma;1695225 wrote:That has nothing to do with the questions I have asked. More deflection?

I am aware of the benefits of education.

Can you tell me the benefits of paying for collegiate services for those people already able and willing to pay for them?

gosh a ruddies what is the benefit of paying for public education for middle class and rich kids whose parents can afford private school

isadore;1695231 wrote:gosh a ruddies what is the benefit of paying for public education for middle class and rich kids whose parents can afford private school

Who said middle class? Not I.

My question is why tax the middle and lower class to pay for college services for those economic classes able and willing to pay?

isadore;1695229 wrote:Gosh is more distant past education was seen as a privilege not a right. And it was only available to the clergy and the aristocracy. As society became more complex and sophisticated it expanded. In the Antebellum South it was seen as a privilege and not extended to slaves and poor whites. In the late 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century secondary education was seen as a privilege and schooling for most ended at 6[SUP]th[/SUP] or 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade. But as society became more complex and freer, public education was extended to secondary school In our technological age with its increasing stratified social structure free public education should be extended to all who want it if our America is to grow and if it is fulfill its claim of being the land of opportunity. Only the privileged, the greedy and the selfish oppose it as they have done throughout history.

link?

Con_Alma;1695232 wrote:Who said middle class? Not I.

My question is why tax the middle and lower class to pay for college services for those economic classes able and willing to pay?

why should the lower and middle classes pay for those who have the resources to send the children to private school

Spock;1695238 wrote:link?

lol link, really. Every thing I wrote should be in an educated person's general knowledge.

I don't know that they should.

Do you know why taxpayers should pay for those who are able and willing to pay for collegiate services?

Con_Alma;1695242 wrote:I don't know that they should.

Do you know why taxpayers should pay for those who are able and willing to pay for collegiate services?

gosh a ruddies why should we all pay for police protection for those who can afford their own private guards.

So you won't answer? Not surprising.

We should all pay for police to enforce the laws of society as a whole. Just like we all pay for basic, primary, public education. Wealthy folks can and do pay for additional, personal, private security and private education.

isadore;1695241 wrote:lol link, really. Every thing I wrote should be in an educated person's general knowledge.

haha.....just type whatever you want to fit your narrative.

BTW......if you feel so strongly about giving everyone everything, are you willing to write a check to your local community college to pay for it? Just like all the other left wing nutjobs that spend other peoples money. Why don't you just go down to your local HS and find a poor kid and pay for their school.

I bet you wouldn't.

Con_Alma;1695244 wrote:So you won't answer? Not surprising.

We should all pay for police to enforce the laws of society as a whole. Just like we all pay for basic, primary, public education. Wealthy folks can and do pay for additional, personal, private security and private education.

I have answered your queries repeatedly but of course you deny the obvious truth of my statement. We should provide free post secondary education for society as a whole as we do primary and secondary. It benefits the entire society.

You haven't answered two of my question. You simply asked more questions.

You and I disagree fundamentally on the issue.

I agree with funding basic education services just like basic law enforcement services to everyone and that everyone should pay towards it.

I don't agree that we should provide the services at a higher level to those who are able and willing to pay for them.

I don

Spock;1695248 wrote:haha.....just type whatever you want to fit your narrative.

BTW......if you feel so strongly about giving everyone everything, are you willing to write a check to your local community college to pay for it? Just like all the other left wing nutjobs that spend other peoples money. Why don't you just go down to your local HS and find a poor kid and pay for their school.

I bet you wouldn't.

Gosh a ruddies I do donate to scholarships but that is not significant to this discussion,
You ought to be looking for a refund on your education if you are unaware that;
1. That in that through much of European history education was limited to the clergy and aristocracy
2. That in the Antebellum South it was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. In most Southern states the planter class were unwilling to pay to educate poor white child, they considered it a privilege
(I will explain the term Antebellumfor you, Ante-Before, Bellum-War {Antebellum is Latin that is a language the ancient Romans spoke} [In US History Ante Bellum is used to describe the period before the Civil War]
3. That in the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] and early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century education beyond 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade was considered a privilege and denied to most children
In all these cases people like you have opposed widening education, seeing it as a privilege. In each case it was expanded increasing opportunity in that society.
Each step has been opposed by the privileged, the greedy and the selfish. And now it is post secondary that would better our society and it has the same opponents.

Con_Alma;1695251 wrote:You haven't answered two of my question. You simply asked more questions.

You and I disagree fundamentally on the issue.

I agree with funding basic education services just like basic law enforcement services to everyone and that everyone should pay towards it.

I don't agree that we should provide the services at a higher level to those who are able and willing to pay for them.

I don

Well don, I hope you are having a nice, safe day. I don't know if you read the statement I wrote to the star trek guy, but the inclusion of post secondary in public education guarantee is a natural extension of opportunity that has been going on since end of the Middle Ages. Extending education first past a small elite, the clergy and aristocracy, then to the poor and enslaved, then to include secondary education. Post secondary is the next natural step in extending opportunity to all.

No additional benefits that I can see are derived by paying for such services for those who can and are willing to do so themselves.

This is why I have asked you what such benefits are. You have yet to answer.

If there is one thing izzy is good at, it's completely ruining any discussion with his own particular brand of leading questions, jumping to assumptions based on a very narrow interpretation of a person's responses and deflecting any questions asked to him in order to simply repeat whatever he's been saying for infinity.

Con_Alma;1695261 wrote:No additional benefits that I can see are derived by paying for such services for those who can and are willing to do so themselves.

This is why I have asked you what such benefits are. You have yet to answer.

You continue to try to undermine public education. Like policing, fire protection, public utilities it is a basic service that should be offered to all.

isadore;1695267 wrote:You continue to try to undermine public education. Like policing, fire protection, public utilities it is a basic service that should be offered to all.

We altready receive the benefits in society from those able and willing to pay for collegiate education doing so. I am not trying to undermine anything but rather determine what benefit there is from paying for those who are able and willing to so. Can you help me understand that? If you can't answer it's O.K. Just thought you might have some rational explanation.

Basic services are already agreed upon.

Heretic;1695264 wrote:If there is one thing izzy is good at, it's completely ruining any discussion with his own particular brand of leading questions, jumping to assumptions based on a very narrow interpretation of a person's responses and deflecting any questions asked to him in order to simply repeat whatever he's been saying for infinity.

gosh a ruddies, none are so blind as you who will not see the truth.

Con_Alma;1695268 wrote:We altready receive the benefits in society from those able and willing to pay for collegiate education doing so. I am not trying to undermine anything but rather determine what benefit there is from paying for those who are able and willing to so. Can you help me understand that? If you can't answer it's O.K. Just thought you might have some rational explanation.

Basic services are already agreed upon.

a public education is a basic service for our society.

isadore;1695255 wrote:Gosh a ruddies I do donate to scholarships but that is not significant to this discussion,
You ought to be looking for a refund on your education if you are unaware that;
1. That in that through much of European history education was limited to the clergy and aristocracy
2. That in the Antebellum South it was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. In most Southern states the planter class were unwilling to pay to educate poor white child, they considered it a privilege
(I will explain the term Antebellumfor you, Ante-Before, Bellum-War {Antebellum is Latin that is a language the ancient Romans spoke} [In US History Ante Bellum is used to describe the period before the Civil War]
3. That in the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] and early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century education beyond 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade was considered a privilege and denied to most children
In all these cases people like you have opposed widening education, seeing it as a privilege. In each case it was expanded increasing opportunity in that society.
Each step has been opposed by the privileged, the greedy and the selfish. And now it is post secondary that would better our society and it has the same opponents.

What happened 200-300 years ago is irrelevant today. Its not helping your argument at all. Our society has evolved beyond that time. It has evolved without making higher education a right. The world needs ditch diggers too. Upward mobility can be for everyone. But the person has to do it. If it is given to them than upward mobility will be trivialized and taken for granted. Actually it would go away and not be valued. Hence a overall decline in society (you think it would improve society but you are wrong)

Now, back to the root of the problem. Until you spend your own money to solve the problem, don't spend mine. Go pay for the entire education of one other person that cant afford it then you can make your statements on your own behalf.

isadore;1695271 wrote:a public education is a basic service for our society.

and its provided for 12 years.