pmoney25 wrote: Then why does the state deny the benefits? Like someone else said, if the state is in the marriage business, they really have no reason to deny them benefits.

Also unless you waited till marriage to have sex, maybe you shouldn't receive marriage benefits either since you are not doing what is "Moral"

Believe me I am conservative and consider myself a Religious person but I follow the philosophy of keeping the government out of the business of denying people benefits for no reason and also thinking I have the power to judge people and treat them less than equal. At the end of the day, if being Gay is immoral or wrong, I will let God decide that.

I was just replying to DSH's post above mine. I wasn't answering as to why I personally don't think they should be able to get married. I feel marriage is something sacred between a man and a woman. That's why I say no. Not b/c I personally think it is immoral. But I do think that is the reason most others feel they shouldn't be allowed.

GoChiefs wrote:

pmoney25 wrote: Then why does the state deny the benefits? Like someone else said, if the state is in the marriage business, they really have no reason to deny them benefits.

Also unless you waited till marriage to have sex, maybe you shouldn't receive marriage benefits either since you are not doing what is "Moral"

Believe me I am conservative and consider myself a Religious person but I follow the philosophy of keeping the government out of the business of denying people benefits for no reason and also thinking I have the power to judge people and treat them less than equal. At the end of the day, if being Gay is immoral or wrong, I will let God decide that.

I was just replying to DSH's post above mine. I wasn't answering as to why I personally don't think they should be able to get married. I feel marriage is something sacred between a man and a woman. That's why I say no. Not b/c I personally think it is immoral. But I do think that is the reason most others feel they shouldn't be allowed.

Makes sense, You are entitled to believe what you want. Always an interesting topic.

Yes, provided there's open bar.

GoChiefs wrote:

pmoney25 wrote: Why should they not get benefits? Call it something else if you want and leave the Religious side out of it, why no benefits?

If my religious beliefs tell me it is immoral..then why would I leave the religious side out of it??? If I thought it was immoral..then that's why I say they should have none of the benefits. My religious beliefs are allowed to help me choose what I believe is right or wrong.

Because religious beliefs should have no business in the policies of our governments.

Gay people in a lasting relationship should be entitled the same benefits as a straight couple in a similar relationship.

If you are truly worried about the "sanctity" of marriage the State must be taken out of the equation.

The State should have no business in licensing anyone to get marriage. Marriage is between the couple and their religious institution if they so choose. There's no need to have the State or any type of government involved at all.

I Wear Pants wrote:Because religious beliefs should have no business in the policies of our governments.

By the same thinking, socialist Big Government should have no business in the policies of our churches and synagogues.

Fair, no?

I think they should be able to. The government should be mindless/blind concerning this.

No reason to deny it, in my view.

At the very least, allow unmarried couples of either gender to register as domestic partners for the purposes of legal benefits like estate, medical power, health care, etc.

If religion wants to own the term "marriage", that's fine by me. If the question is if a couple should have different rights due to their being same vs opposite sex, I see no compelling argument to support that.

[size=xx-large]NO!![/size][size=medium]Its a sin and its stupid. If they do get married some where where "they allow it", it wont be recognised by God. There's a reason why God made them Adam and Eve, and why He says "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I can go on and on why its wrong.[/size]

cats gone wild wrote: [size=xx-large]NO!![/size][size=medium]Its a sin and its stupid. If they do get married some where where "they allow it", it wont be recognised by God. There's a reason why God made them Adam and Eve, and why He says "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I can go on and on why its wrong.[/size]

While you and I know it is wrong, your "going on" about it will only serve to further rile the folks on the "anything goes except Christianity" side of the political fence.

Best to leave some things in His hands.

believer wrote:

cats gone wild wrote: [size=xx-large]NO!![/size][size=medium]Its a sin and its stupid. If they do get married some where where "they allow it", it wont be recognised by God. There's a reason why God made them Adam and Eve, and why He says "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I can go on and on why its wrong.[/size]

While you and I know it is wrong, your "going on" about it will only serve to further rile the folks on the "anything goes except Christianity" side of the political fence.

Best to leave some things in His hands.

I agree, and Im not going to argue about this for days, because people will argue it over and over and try to disprove me.

Can non Christians be married? If only God can recognize marriage, if you dont believe you can't be married?

Also I don't care about the word marriage but the fact the state denies them rights.

Don't worry. Considering your only "proof" is lines from a book where you have nothing besides personal faith to say those words are anything more than the moral code of HUMAN writers, it's not worth my time to "disprove" you.

If, due to your religious beliefs, you feel homosexuality is immoral, a sin, etc., that's your right. But it doesn't make you automatically correct. And just because your Bible has lines against it doesn't mean it's automatically immoral.

I understand the sanctity of marriage as a Christian and believe that should be upheld. However, whether we like it or not, the term "marriage" has been adopted socially and as a legal term in man's world, I can't justify denying someone that right. Maybe that marriage will not be honored by God, but there are many heterosexual marriages that risk that same fate because there is no sin greater than another (save blashphemy - a completely different topic). Should a marriage be automatically dissolved due to adultery? Should adulterers have their rights to be married taken away? I often wonder why homosexuality is such a great focus of churches/religious types. You sin, I sin, homosexuals sin and it is up to each of us to handle that with God, not each other.

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)

Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. (Mark 11:25)

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matthew 7:1-2)

Cats,

It might be a "sin". But we're all sinners. We sin and we will always sin. There is no such thing as a sinless human being. Unless we're talking about Jesus Christ.

Forgivness is Divine, isn't it? NOT that I think that other peoples' marriages need to be forgiven by me, or you or anybody else... but isn't that Gods job? Forgiveness?

CenterBHSFan wrote:Forgivness is Divine, isn't it? NOT that I think that other peoples' marriages need to be forgiven by me, or you or anybody else... but isn't that Gods job? Forgiveness?

Like I suggested to Cats above it's probably best to put this topic in God's capable hands.

However, it doesn't mean we must be silent or give up our our free speech right to call a spade and spade.

Heretic wrote: Don't worry. Considering your only "proof" is lines from a book where you have nothing besides personal faith to say those words are anything more than the moral code of HUMAN writers, it's not worth my time to "disprove" you.

If, due to your religious beliefs, you feel homosexuality is immoral, a sin, etc., that's your right. But it doesn't make you automatically correct. And just because your Bible has lines against it doesn't mean it's automatically immoral.

Frankly I could give a rat's rear what consenting adults choose to do in private. Just don't force me or other persons of faith to recognize same sex partnerships as marriages.

And just because your secularism thinks homosexuality is okee dokee, doesn't mean it's automatically moral. Fair enough?

enigmaax wrote:For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)

Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. (Mark 11:25)

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matthew 7:1-2)

Not up to me to judge. You are right about that.

Still while it's perfectly fine to quote Scripture to back-up your arguments, the inherent danger in doing so is there are other Scriptures that also make it perfectly clear what our moral position ought to be:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Leviticus 20:22

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Romans 1 26-27

Just sayin'..........

Enigmaax,

What if that same gay couple who just married, wanted to smoke in a restaurant? Gay marriage harms my children (from the way I raised them) emotionally/socially as does smoking harms them physically. Is emotional damage no different than physical damage?

You are picking and choosing your "rights" here.

believer - Nothing that is said in your quotes makes that one particular sin worse than any other sin. Ultimately, we'll all be judged by Him and I've got my own sins to worry about than trying to ensure gay men/women don't get the same things as me in this world. We are all people, all sinners, and picking and choosing sins to support the manner in which I treat (or want people to be treated) others is not in line with how I want to live. I feel it would be contrary to the message I've received.

ernest - There is no proof that gay marriage "harms" your children in any way. Being contrary to your teaching does not constitute harm. There is documented evidence as to the harms of smoking, including second hand smoke, so I can't even say, "nice try".

Another difference is that the "right" is for all people to be treated equally with regard to benefits for domestic partnership, etc. The same "right" to a reasonably healthy environment applies to smokers and non-smokers. It is the smoker who violates that right for others, not the other way around. Should (power, etc.) plants be able to pollute the air and water at the same astronomical rate they did before laws regulated emissions? After all, you can "choose" not to drink C8 water. And the new laws on that front in the last 20-25 years caused lost revenue, layoffs, shutdowns, etc.

My favorite point in this is that gay marriage harms the sanctity of marriage.

If the lesbians who live next door to my family get married, it has no impact on my marriage whatsoever. Their kids seem pretty happy and so do they.

I just think it's crazy that there are people with no issue with two immature heterosexuals getting married or see the marriage of a man and a woman when the man beats his wife as morally just even if his actions are repugnant but see the happy couple next door to me as a blight on society.

Sorry. Don't buy it. There's no reason anyone should be able to legislate that a couple can't get married, regardless of gender. That's legislated discrimination. There was once a time it wasn't legal in many places for blacks and whites to marry. I think we all agree that's a bad point in our history.

Fidmeister wrote: My favorite point in this is that gay marriage harms the sanctity of marriage.

If the lesbians who live next door to my family get married, it has no impact on my marriage whatsoever. Their kids seem pretty happy and so do they.

+1. My marriage is between my wife, me, and whatever creator we believe in. No other human being on the face of the Earth has any effect on it whatsoever.

I'd rather see a committed gay couple marry than a heterosexual couple that enters marriage without much thought or commitment.

enigmaax wrote: believer - Nothing that is said in your quotes makes that one particular sin worse than any other sin. Ultimately, we'll all be judged by Him and I've got my own sins to worry about than trying to ensure gay men/women don't get the same things as me in this world. We are all people, all sinners, and picking and choosing sins to support the manner in which I treat (or want people to be treated) others is not in line with how I want to live. I feel it would be contrary to the message I've received.

I agree with this. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that being gay is the worst sin. And like I mentioned before, I am sure there are many married people on this site(myself included) who engaged in premarital sex, so since that is a sin, our marriages should be null and void also??

Its always entertaining to see someone quote Leviticus to back up their position and blindly ignore the other "sins" contained in it. Should Pork or Shrimp eaters be forbidden to marry? what about those who get their hair cut? and those who wear clothing of mixed fibers?

I'd be willing to bet that you have even attended a wedding where the Bride and Groom are sporting fresh haircuts, wearing clothing of blended fibers and even served bacon wrapped shrimp at the reception.......

I agree. Leviticus is used indecently too much to try and sway opinions.

Daniel Tosh has the answers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmbWfxd_N-Q

(in hick voice) "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!"