Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems
Log In Create Account

2015 Browns Offseason Thread

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ 2015 Browns Offseason Thread
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:19 PM
sleeper;1725505 wrote: Ask Bill Belichick what he thinks about "stopping the run". LOL
Thanks for proving our point: Bill Belichick thinks enough of it that he made an exception to his policy and kept Vince Wilfork longer than he could have. For someone who routinely gets rid of big named veterans a year too early rather than a year too late, he held on the Wilfork because he knew how valuable he was in the middle and how his skillset was the fulcrum of the whole defensive scheme.

And Wilfork was +10.1 against the run and -9.7 as a pass rusher on PFF. But nah, Belichick doesn't care.
Apr 30, 2015 1:19pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:21 PM
sleeper;1725505 wrote:Irrelevant. There's a model there and its not a big secret. Ask Bill Belichick what he thinks about "stopping the run". LOL
Patriots were top 10 in run defense and 17th in pass defense. I'd say he cares.
Apr 30, 2015 1:21pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:21 PM
like_that;1725508 wrote:I don't know who is saying that should be the only focus of our draft, but it's an important piece. If Shelton falls down to 12 you take him. He has been labeled as one of the only sure things in this draft. Drafting him doesn't mean we have to draft 4 more dts.
I'm fine with drafting Shelton. This isn't about any particular player being good or bad(except Mariota who is bad and a complete waste of time); this is about where you should focus your strategy going forward. I don't think a focus on stopping the run is at all important; but rather a strong pass rush/pass defense and a flexible passing offense.
Apr 30, 2015 1:21pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:21 PM
sleeper;1725505 wrote:Irrelevant. There's a model there and its not a big secret. Ask Bill Belichick what he thinks about "stopping the run". LOL
They were top 10 in the league for average yards allowed per carry LOL.
Apr 30, 2015 1:21pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:22 PM
BR1986FB;1725510 wrote:Patriots were top 10 in run defense and 17th in pass defense. I'd say he cares.
Subjective stats are subjective.
Apr 30, 2015 1:22pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:23 PM
like_that;1725508 wrote:I don't know who is saying that should be the only focus of our draft, but it's an important piece. If Shelton falls down to 12 you take him. He has been labeled as one of the only sure things in this draft. Drafting him doesn't mean we have to draft 4 more dts.
I'm probably in the minority but if Shane Ray or Randy Gregory slip to the 2nd or 3rd round, I think one of them would be worth taking a shot at.
Apr 30, 2015 1:23pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:23 PM
BR1986FB;1725515 wrote:I'm probably in the minority but if Shane Ray or Randy Gregory slip to the 2nd or 3rd round, I think one of them would be worth taking a shot at.
Yeah in the 2nd round for sure.
Apr 30, 2015 1:23pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:24 PM
sleeper;1725514 wrote:Subjective stats are subjective.
Those are objective stats. Your subjective classification of objective stats is a dead giveaway you're aware you're wrong about Belichick and now you're just acting the fool.

I've been on this site long enough to automatically register Sleeper's baiting spiel, sigh.
Apr 30, 2015 1:24pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:27 PM
sleeper;1725511 wrote:I'm fine with drafting Shelton. This isn't about any particular player being good or bad(except Mariota who is bad and a complete waste of time); this is about where you should focus your strategy going forward. I don't think a focus on stopping the run is at all important; but rather a strong pass rush/pass defense and a flexible passing offense.
To me it's about selecting BPA at a position of need. That's Shelton at DT. The teams who do that are normally not picking at the top of the draft.
Apr 30, 2015 1:27pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:35 PM
like_that;1725520 wrote:To me it's about selecting BPA at a position of need. That's Shelton at DT. The teams who do that are normally not picking at the top of the draft.
If Shelton is even close to the player he's been compared to (Haloti Ngata) you don't hesitate turning in the card for him. Friggin' Savage getting his pants taken down by Ozzie so the Rats get Ngata and the Browns get WimPley and Babatunde.
Apr 30, 2015 1:35pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:36 PM
BR1986FB;1725510 wrote:Patriots were top 10 in run defense and 17th in pass defense. I'd say he cares.
As I said before......were they top 10 in run defense and only 17th in the pass because their run defense was so great and their pass defense just meaty-oakre (love that one) or because they were generally ahead in games and opposing teams went to catch up mode?

THey did have big ole wilfork in the middle though to stuff the run and take on 2 OL
Apr 30, 2015 1:36pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:38 PM
thavoice;1725526 wrote:As I said before......were they top 10 in run defense and only 17th in the pass because their run defense was so great and their pass defense just meaty-oakre (love that one) or because they were generally ahead in games and opposing teams went to catch up mode?

THey did have big ole wilfork in the middle though to stuff the run and take on 2 OL
And I understand this too. One year everyone was raving about the Browns "shutdown pass defense" when in fact they were giving up so many damn yards on the ground that teams didn't need to throw.
Apr 30, 2015 1:38pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:46 PM
lhslep134;1725517 wrote:Those are objective stats. Your subjective classification of objective stats is a dead giveaway you're aware you're wrong about Belichick and now you're just acting the fool.

I've been on this site long enough to automatically register Sleeper's baiting spiel, sigh.
I just enjoy him taking the truth that there really aren't many standout backs to indicate that no one cares about the run. No, due to injury and how backs drop off a cliff, teams aren't interested in putting a ton of money into one particular guy when he might drop off the face of the earth next year.

In the division you have to do well in if you want to actually make the playoffs, in 2014, two of the three other teams were top 10 in the NFL for rushing yards (Cincy - 6th; Balti - 8th), both of whom had over 2000 yards as a team. Pittsburgh was middle of the pack overall, but had the #2 back in rushing yards (ie: one of the tiny handful of teams that essentially played the old-school "feature back" game).

So yeah, ignore the run completely. Wise decision-making that will take a team far in one of the more run-heavy divisions in the league.
Apr 30, 2015 1:46pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:46 PM
thavoice;1725453 wrote:
The browns could do worse than bradford.....
Yeah weeden
Apr 30, 2015 1:46pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:47 PM
BR1986FB;1725524 wrote:If Shelton is even close to the player he's been compared to (Haloti Ngata) you don't hesitate turning in the card for him. Friggin' Savage getting his pants taken down by Ozzie so the Rats get Ngata and the Browns get WimPley and Babatunde.
We got vickers with the pick. Not babatunde
Apr 30, 2015 1:47pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:49 PM
lhslep134;1725517 wrote:Those are objective stats. Your subjective classification of objective stats is a dead giveaway you're aware you're wrong about Belichick and now you're just acting the fool.

I've been on this site long enough to automatically register Sleeper's baiting spiel, sigh.
They are objective stats but stats are not generated in a vaccuum. Maybe they knew that giving up big runs was irrelevant in the long run vs. being able to stop the pass. Clearly their strategy worked as the are the reigning Super Bowl champions and you somehow think their strategy was a failure. LOL. Let me know how many draft picks are traded to get a real run stopper by the Patriots this year.
Apr 30, 2015 1:49pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:52 PM
Seattle #1 scoring defense. New England #8.

Tell me more about how stats matter when trying to win an NFL championship.
Apr 30, 2015 1:52pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:53 PM
Commander of Awesome;1725535 wrote:We got vickers with the pick. Not babatunde
Wrong
Apr 30, 2015 1:53pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:06 PM
Heretic;1725533 wrote: So yeah, ignore the run completely. Wise decision-making that will take a team far in one of the more run-heavy divisions in the league.
Right because not spending assets and salary cap to build a talented defense designed to stop the run is equal to "hey guys if the other team runs, let's just roll on our backs!!1". No, the reality is the run can be stopped by drafting strong pass rushers and teaching them how to play a run stopping set; not the other way around. Scheme is more important than having run stopping specialists in a league where the RB position is continously devalued. This would be like spending $60B of a $100B defense budget on tanks when the war is fought primarily on water. Sure, you need tanks but if you control the ocean you win the war.
Apr 30, 2015 2:06pm
MontyBrunswick's avatar

MontyBrunswick

Senior Member

846 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:16 PM
"This is the year we finally gather the pieces we need to build a playoff contender!"
--every browns fan the past fifteen years
Apr 30, 2015 2:16pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:16 PM
Patriots only have 1 first round draft pick on their D-line, and that's a pass rushing specialist in Jones.

But yeah "stop the run".

Starting DTs? 6th Round and 1 undrafted. Stop the run!
Apr 30, 2015 2:16pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:22 PM
I don't think Sleeper knows Belichick took Vilfork in the 1st round at 21 overall. He's more than trolling right now, he actually thinks he's right about Belichick. LMAO
Apr 30, 2015 2:22pm
F

friendfromlowry

Senior Member

6,239 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:23 PM
lhslep134;1725558 wrote:I don't think Sleeper knows Belichick took Vilfork in the 1st round at 21 overall. He's more than trolling right now, he actually thinks he's right about Belichick. Adorable.
What gave it away? You posting the rankings proving him wrong about the Patriots defense to which he argued they were subjective anyways?
Apr 30, 2015 2:23pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:23 PM
lhslep134;1725558 wrote:I don't think Sleeper knows Belichick took Vilfork in the 1st round at 21 overall. He's more than trolling right now, he actually thinks he's right about Belichick. Adorable.
11 years ago. You are going to talk about the current strategy in the NFL by talking about a draft pick 11 years ago?

Thank you for proving my point.
Apr 30, 2015 2:23pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 2:29 PM
lhslep134;1725558 wrote:I don't think Sleeper knows Belichick took Vilfork in the 1st round at 21 overall. He's more than trolling right now, he actually thinks he's right about Belichick. LMAO
Ty Warren & Richard Seymour were also 1st rounders.
Apr 30, 2015 2:29pm