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2015 Browns Offseason Thread

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sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2015 12:40 PM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;1725468 wrote:I'm hearing Shelton at 12 and Perriman at 19?
I want to adhere to the "stop the run" morons so every draft pick should be about that. Then, when the Browns continue to lose by investing in value negative talent that doesn't adapt to actually how you win football games they can point to this draft to shut them up. We need a strong pass rush and strong DBs before we need lane cloggers to stop the 3 backs in the league who can consistently run 100 yards regardless of how good/bad the run defense is.
Apr 30, 2015 12:40pm
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BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 12:42 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1725472 wrote:If the Eagles trade up to number 2 and I'm the Buccs, I tell them give me assets for #1 overall or I'm taking Mariota lol. It's evident Chip wants MM badly, and I think it'd be funny if they give up a ton and then didn't get their guy haha. Unlikely, but still would be great.
This trade wouldn't get announced until after Tennessee was on the clock.
Apr 30, 2015 12:42pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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26,625 posts
Apr 30, 2015 12:48 PM
BR1986FB;1725455 wrote:This is why I'm leaning more towards Bradford than Mariota. If you bring Bradford in, you're spending less in the way of draft picks. If he balls out, he likely stays in Cleveland. If he sucks ass, he's gone and they're drafting high again anyhow. Maybe that's where Cardale comes into play if he's good this year. Yes, it would suck burning a 1st rounder and getting nothing back but it's not like this franchise hasn't done it before. I want them to take a risk but not a "mortgage the future" risk by giving up multiple 1st's.
"it's not like they have fucked up before" is horrible reasoning/logic to do it again.
Apr 30, 2015 12:48pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Apr 30, 2015 12:50 PM
sleeper;1725473 wrote:I want to adhere to the "stop the run" morons so every draft pick should be about that. Then, when the Browns continue to lose by investing in value negative talent that doesn't adapt to actually how you win football games they can point to this draft to shut them up. We need a strong pass rush and strong DBs before we need lane cloggers to stop the 3 backs in the league who can consistently run 100 yards regardless of how good/bad the run defense is.
Which pass rusher are you drafting that is worth the #12 overall?
Apr 30, 2015 12:50pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 12:53 PM
like_that;1725480 wrote:Which pass rusher are you drafting that is worth the #12 overall?
I don't know, but I fail to see how we need to focus efforts on "stopping the run" when the league doesn't really care about RBs anymore.
Apr 30, 2015 12:53pm
Iliketurtles's avatar

Iliketurtles

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Apr 30, 2015 12:56 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1725472 wrote:If the Eagles trade up to number 2 and I'm the Buccs, I tell them give me assets for #1 overall or I'm taking Mariota lol. It's evident Chip wants MM badly, and I think it'd be funny if they give up a ton and then didn't get their guy haha. Unlikely, but still would be great.
This wouldn't ever happen. Like BR said they deal wouldn't be done until after the Bucs made their pick. So if the Bucs took MM to try and get some kind of haul from the Eagles then the Titans wouldn't do any trades and they would get the QB they want and the Bucs would be fucked.

I think the Browns are going to stay at 12 and 19. They will take Shelton at 12 if he is there and a WR at 19. If Shelton isn't there at 12 I think they will take a WR and then who knows what they do at 19.
Apr 30, 2015 12:56pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Apr 30, 2015 12:58 PM
sleeper;1725481 wrote:I don't know, but I fail to see how we need to focus efforts on "stopping the run" when the league doesn't really care about RBs anymore.
I've already gone over this but the AFCN is run heavy. All the QBs (even rapistberger) rely on their running game to get going their offense going. All teams have solid to pretty damn tough offensive lines. You need a good front 7 in the AFCN. Anybody who has paid attention to this division the last 10 years would know this.
Apr 30, 2015 12:58pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Apr 30, 2015 1:00 PM
The league just doesn't care about the premier RB anymore.
Apr 30, 2015 1:00pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 1:01 PM
like_that;1725486 wrote:I've already gone over this but the AFCN is run heavy. All the QBs (even rapistberger) rely on their running game to get going their offense going. All teams have solid to pretty damn tough offensive lines. You need a good front 7 in the AFCN. Anybody who has paid attention to this division the last 10 years would know this.
The AFC North is not run heavy; this isn't the 1950's.
Apr 30, 2015 1:01pm
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thavoice

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14,376 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:02 PM
Automatik;1725488 wrote:The league just doesn't care about the premier RB anymore.
Most teams pass to set up the run anymore, instead of the other way around.
The defensive rules make it easier to throw it, and throw it ofte
Apr 30, 2015 1:02pm
Dr. KnOiTaLL's avatar

Dr. KnOiTaLL

Trust me, I'm a doctor!

2,682 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:03 PM
Iliketurtles;1725484 wrote:I think the Browns are going to stay at 12 and 19. They will take Shelton at 12 if he is there and a WR at 19. If Shelton isn't there at 12 I think they will take a WR and then who knows what they do at 19.
I've read Perriman at 19, but I don't like what I've read about him. Haven't seen any film, so I won't condemn the pick, but this sounds too much like Greg Little for me to be on board:

"Rarely allows the ball into his body and stabs at the ball with hands away from frame," "...Fights the ball at times, especially when working back to the quarterback. Had multiple extension drops on routine catches throughout film study and left a lot of yards on the field
Apr 30, 2015 1:03pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Apr 30, 2015 1:08 PM
like_that;1725478 wrote:"it's not like they have fucked up before" is horrible reasoning/logic to do it again.
It was my comment, not their logic.
Apr 30, 2015 1:08pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 30, 2015 1:09 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1725491 wrote:I've read Perriman at 19, but I don't like what I've read about him. Haven't seen any film, so I won't condemn the pick, but this sounds too much like Greg Little for me to be on board:

"Rarely allows the ball into his body and stabs at the ball with hands away from frame," "...Fights the ball at times, especially when working back to the quarterback. Had multiple extension drops on routine catches throughout film study and left a lot of yards on the field
This would be a TERRIBLE pick. The guy was probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder before a blazing 40 time, that got leaked, vaunted him up some draft boards. What sickens me as to the possibility of this happening is that Farmer, I believe, flew to him to have dinner and spend a lot of time with.
Apr 30, 2015 1:09pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 1:11 PM
Automatik;1725488 wrote:The league just doesn't care about the premier RB anymore.
It's a shift in strategy. The run is essentially a way to keep the defense from setting into deep zones and playing back. It's not like teams are building their offense to hand the ball off 3 downs and then use play action to force teams to keep some pass defense; its the complete opposite. Of course there are still RBs in the league that can gash you but you can stop that with a better scheme rather than having run stop specialists.
Apr 30, 2015 1:11pm
like_that's avatar

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Apr 30, 2015 1:11 PM
sleeper;1725489 wrote:The AFC North is not run heavy; this isn't the 1950's.
The bengals, Browns, and ravens all averaged 28+ attempts a game. Just stop.
Apr 30, 2015 1:11pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Apr 30, 2015 1:11 PM
Automatik;1725488 wrote:The league just doesn't care about the premier RB anymore.
Not caring about whether a RB is premier or not =/= a decreased importance on the ability to run the ball.

It signals a decreased reliance on gaining yardage on the ground, and the corresponding decrease in the fungible value of a running back, but you still need to be able to successfully run the ball. The "air it out" style that the NFL has become has not decreased the value of the running game, it transferred the value from running backs to offensive lineman. Having a good offensive line is more important than having a good running back.
Apr 30, 2015 1:11pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 1:14 PM
like_that;1725497 wrote:The bengals, Browns, and ravens all averaged 28+ attempts a game. Just stop.
And none of these teams were relevant last year. The Patriots don't have a run game and they certainly don't care about stopping the run; they have a great pass defense, including pass rush along with a top notch QB and flexible passing game. But no, let's just focus on poor stats in the AFC North rather than trying to model the current Super Bowl champs.
Apr 30, 2015 1:14pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 30, 2015 1:14 PM
like_that;1725497 wrote:The bengals, Browns, and ravens all averaged 28+ attempts a game. Just stop.
Until the Browns can show some ability to stop the run, these teams are going to pound it down their throats. I agree that the AFC North and NFC West are heavy run oriented. That's not to say that those divisions don't have very good passing attacks but those are probably the most physical divisions in football.
Apr 30, 2015 1:14pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Apr 30, 2015 1:15 PM
lhslep134;1725498 wrote:Not caring about whether a RB is premier or not =/= a decreased importance on the ability to run the ball.

It signals a decreased reliance on gaining yardage on the ground, and the corresponding decrease in the fungible value of a running back, but you still need to be able to successfully run the ball. The "air it out" style that the NFL has become has not decreased the value of the running game, it transferred the value from running backs to offensive lineman. Having a good offensive line is more important than having a good running back.
This is what I am saying, and when you have a team like the Browns who gave up 4.5 yards per carry, it makes it a lot easier for average QBs to air it out on them.

There is a reason why hoyer was looking pretty damn good early in the season...
Apr 30, 2015 1:15pm
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DeyDurkie5

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Apr 30, 2015 1:15 PM
Can we just please stop with the "I'm hearing this" or "this mock said this" it's just completely retarded.
Apr 30, 2015 1:15pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 1:16 PM
Again, I hope we draft to entirely focus on stopping the run. That way I can point to this draft and say "I told you so" after the Browns continue to be mediocre.
Apr 30, 2015 1:16pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 30, 2015 1:16 PM
sleeper;1725499 wrote:And none of these teams were relevant last year. The Patriots don't have a run game and they certainly don't care about stopping the run; they have a great pass defense, including pass rush along with a top notch QB and flexible passing game. But no, let's just focus on poor stats in the AFC North rather than trying to model the current Super Bowl champs.
The Browns don't have Bill Belichick.
Apr 30, 2015 1:16pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Apr 30, 2015 1:17 PM
BR1986FB;1725504 wrote:The Browns don't have Bill Belichick.
Irrelevant. There's a model there and its not a big secret. Ask Bill Belichick what he thinks about "stopping the run". LOL
Apr 30, 2015 1:17pm
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lhslep134

why so serious?

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Apr 30, 2015 1:17 PM
like_that;1725501 wrote:This is what I am saying.
I know. All of the circular arguing made me want to summarize our point.
Apr 30, 2015 1:17pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Apr 30, 2015 1:19 PM
sleeper;1725503 wrote:Again, I hope we draft to entirely focus on stopping the run. That way I can point to this draft and say "I told you so" after the Browns continue to be mediocre.
I don't know who is saying that should be the only focus of our draft, but it's an important piece. If Shelton falls down to 12 you take him. He has been labeled as one of the only sure things in this draft. Drafting him doesn't mean we have to draft 4 more dts.
Apr 30, 2015 1:19pm