Ironman92;1689293 wrote:I still don't see that team getting it done in the postseason.

Agreed.

Ironman92;1689285 wrote:You are clear that I am not one of those people...correct?

Crystal clear lol. I like your posts you bring knowledgeable opinions to the table.

gerb131;1689289 wrote:No apologies. Maybe I should apologize to you?
He doesn't make my list. Maybe top 25 but in term of importance to his team top 5.

Asking this seriously and without sarcasm: how many full NBA games have you watched this year? Related question, how many different teams' full games have you watched this year?

I'll admit I can't make it through an entire game. I catch quarters of many different games. As NFL wears off I catch a lot more and as MLB starts I rarely catch much and I'm not much interested in the playoffs until the 2nd round (unless it's an elimination game)

I do habitually check the standings and box scores. I like to look for outstanding and cruddy games by individuals.

lhslep134;1689312 wrote:Asking this seriously and without sarcasm: how many full NBA games have you watched this year? Related question, how many different teams' full games have you watched this year?

religiously watch Thursday night TNT games and a Cavs game maybe two a week.

I haven't looked but there can't be many if any lists with Marc Gasol in the top 10 nba players right now.

gerb131;1689340 wrote:religiously watch Thursday night TNT games and a Cavs game maybe two a week.

Have you caught games from both players?

Give a way sweaters at tomorrow's Heat game....nice

I guess it's a t-shirt but still cool

gerb131;1689341 wrote:I haven't looked but there can't be many if any lists with Marc Gasol in the top 10 nba players right now.

I used to think he was underrated up until this year, now I think people are overrating him. To be a top 5 player you need to be able to carry your team especially in the postseason we'll see if he's able to do that. I still think Pau, even at age 34, is every bit as good as Marc, and certainly better in the post.

Not a list of best, but of MVP thus far...#2 behind Curry.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/features/sekou_smith/12/19/week-7-kia-race-to-the-mvp-john-wall-stands-out-for-washington-wizards/index.html

robj55;1689356 wrote:I still think Pau, even at age 34, is every bit as good as Marc, and certainly better in the post.

Sheer ignorance, indefensible ignorance at that.


Just a fucking stupid opinion. There is no rational world where Pau has been close to Marc.


But hey, keep citing an opinion based on not actually watching basketball. I'm entertained, FWIW

robj55;1689356 wrote:To be a top 5 player you need to be able to carry your team especially in the postseason we'll see if he's able to do that

He carried them to the conference finals.

Laley23;1689359 wrote:Not a list of best, but of MVP thus far...#2 behind Curry.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/features/sekou_smith/12/19/week-7-kia-race-to-the-mvp-john-wall-stands-out-for-washington-wizards/index.html

Rather than get frustrated I'm just going to accept that most people have no idea how good he is.

The only ones who do are the ones who actually watch games from all the teams and don't follow just one team.

robj55;1689356 wrote: I still think Pau, even at age 34, is every bit as good as Marc, and certainly better in the post.

Sheer ignorance. But par for the course for you. You have, on many occasions, exposed the fact you don't watch the NBA.

lhslep134;1689384 wrote:Rather than get frustrated I'm just going to accept that most people have no idea how good he is.

The only ones who do are the ones who actually watch games from all the teams and don't follow just one team.

The straight up old school stuff it's pretty close

Marc 20 ppg/8.2 rb/3.8 ast/1.6 blk
Pau 18.2 ppg/11.4 rb/1.9 ast/2.0 blk

Marc has him in the per 100 possession stats.

The biggest gap is value over replacement player (which I don't grasp as well as WAR)

lhslep....WAR is flawed in baseball OPS+ and RC+ are better ....is VORP the basketball version of baseball's WAR? Is there a more telling basketball stat? Fangraphs WAR is better and figures in wOBA and wRC+ but all of those stars used just seem a bit flawed (especially baserunning and defense).....anyways I know they are all improving but a lot of metrics have a bit of a red flag when you view how they rank players.....I can only vie for baseball but do the basketball metrics all seem pretty spot on?

Ironman92;1689391 wrote:
lhslep....WAR is flawed in baseball OPS+ and RC+ are better ....is VORP the basketball version of baseball's WAR? Is there a more telling basketball stat?

I like to use win shares and win shares per 48 minutes as my value comparison, much like I look at xFIP for pitchers and WRC+ for batters. VORP is decent, but like WAR, I don't like the comparison to replacement level players.

Basketball has more of the eye test involved than baseball though, for as much of a cop out as that is. Baseball is on a whole different level of independence as opposed to the interdependence of the NBA in terms of how players work together and how stats don't tell the whole story.

You gave a great example of my point. The stats for Pau and Marc may look similar, but one is the focal point of both the offense and defense and the other is a cog in an incredibly well oiled machine.

Marc is right behind on WS/48 .193 to .195

Why is LeBron's WS/48 so much lower than his last several years....stats are down a touch-----inconsistency of team and lack of flow?

Looking deeper into his numbers per year the offensive win shares and his traditional statistics do mirror each other well and look to figure in FG%...and 3 point FG/FG%

So I see why he currently has his 2nd lowest WS/48 thus far this season....lowest since rookie season and just behind his 2nd season.

Looking back on his stats reminds you how damn productive he was and the insanely high level

The most useful NBA metrics are not really made public, the SportVU data tracking everything on the court.

Example: if 2 players both shot around 38% from 3 on about the same volume of shots but one player routinely drew tighter defensive shifts and more defensive attention the stats wouldn't show that. But by watching the games and looking at each player's Gravity score would show that the player who draws more defensive attention is more valuable to a team schematically.

Gravity is explained a little bit here http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11744634/explaining-gravity-basketball

lhslep134;1689405 wrote:The most useful NBA metrics are not really made public, the SportVU data tracking everything on the court.

Example: if 2 players both shot around 38% from 3 on about the same volume of shots but one player routinely drew tighter defensive shifts and more defensive attention the stats wouldn't show that. But by watching the games and looking at each player's Gravity score would show that the player who draws more defensive attention is more valuable to a team schematically.

Gravity is explained a little bit here http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11744634/explaining-gravity-basketball

tlfagt;bdr

Interesting....measuring how a common sense man defense guards each player...makes sense but lol at those measuring it.

Are teams gravitating too much to DWade on the perimeter? Why?...no LeBron and feel the need to over value the ball in his hands?

lhslep134;1689383 wrote:He carried them to the conference finals.

Conley, Randolph and company didn't have anything to do with that? I wouldn't say he carried them, he certainly was a large contributing factor though.

robj55;1689409 wrote:Conley, Randolph and company didn't have anything to do with that? I wouldn't say he carried them, he certainly was a large contributing factor though.

Gasol led his team to the conference finals in the West. Discount that at your own ignorance.

Ironman92;1689408 wrote:
Are teams gravitating too much to DWade on the perimeter? Why?...no LeBron and feel the need to over value the ball in his hands?

No idea because those stats aren't made public, only available to a select few media outlets and of course the teams. I know the "do you actually watch" argument is juvenile, but it actually applies to the NBA.

Without watching it's hard to evaluate and differentiate close sets of stats.

lhslep134;1689411 wrote:No idea because those stats aren't made public, only available to a select few media outlets and of course the teams. I know the "do you actually watch" argument is juvenile, but it actually applies to the NBA.

Without watching it's hard to evaluate and differentiate close sets of stats.

See....I go to RedsZone for game threads during baseball seasons and some of those jackasses are just all metric and if I ever argue anything because darnit I watch as much as anyone those ass clowns go off because my eyes don't count unless I'm at the game....(apparently my instincts of how long it takes the camera to get to CF is adequate for me to tell how a guy reads a ball and his path being efficient.