friendfromlowry;1632494 wrote:Lol what the fuck ever. I like how you just assume Miami would crush anyone when you were initially wrong about them even beating SA. I'm not saying the Clippers or Thunder or Blazers would have beat them, but you can't automatically assume Miami would have won because only San Antonio would have had this brilliant, unique gameplan of "team basketball." San Antonio's executing, passing, and shooting had nothing to do with Bosh, Wade, and the rest of the team not showing up.

Honestly if think what SA and any of those other teams out west are doing on the floor is comparable you should stop watching. I'm not saying Miami would crush them or whatever but in a 7 game series they beat all those teams. Not disrespecting those teams they just don't play the style necessary or have the discipline to win over 7 games. Takes more than talent to win a title.

robj55;1632495 wrote:I'm not saying Miami would crush them or whatever but in a 7 game series they beat all those teams

You were confident they'd beat SA too. What others are saying is, maybe your ability to assess the Heat's chances against Western Conference opponents isn't particularly good.

HighRoller74;1632483 wrote:So it'd really come down to Bosh against Ibaka, which would be a Heat lean.

I wouldn't agree with that assessment at all.

HelloAgain;1632496 wrote:
I wouldn't agree with that assessment at all.

I was speaking purely on the offensive side. Ibaka would dominate the interior, and on the boards.

HelloAgain;1632496 wrote:You were confident they'd beat SA too. What others are saying is, maybe your ability to assess the Heat's chances against Western Conference opponents isn't particularly good.



I wouldn't agree with that assessment at all.

I wasn't confident at all about that lol I thought it could go either way but that Lebron would be the difference especially late in games. What people don't understand is that SA is the only team that was able to make Miami look the way they did by the way they played and executed, that's my main point.

HighRoller74;1632497 wrote:I was speaking purely on the offensive side. Ibaka would dominate the interior, and on the boards.

Ibaka has no interior game, he is a face up jump shooter. He's a good shot blocker however and a decent rebounder.

robj55;1632495 wrote:Honestly if think what SA and any of those other teams out west are doing on the floor is comparable you should stop watching. I'm not saying Miami would crush them or whatever but in a 7 game series they beat all those teams. Not disrespecting those teams they just don't play the style necessary or have the discipline to win over 7 games. Takes more than talent to win a title.

Right. I should stop watching basketball when time and time again you've been incredibly outnumbered in everything you try to argue regarding the Heat. The reality is that the east is bad. Miami beat two teams that lost nearly as many games as they won, then beat a self-destructing Indiana team that had no business being there. They were there because, as I said, the east is bad. The first team out west the Heat ran into, they were exposed as a team with one elite player, two very good but often inconsistent/hurt players, and a bunch of other randomly assembled garbage. Idk what you think it is that San Antonio is doing that no other team can do, but they almost didn't make it to the finals by doing it.

robj55;1632498 wrote:I wasn't confident at all about that lol I thought it could go either way but that Lebron would be the difference especially late in games. What people don't understand is that SA is the only team that was able to make Miami look the way they did by the way they played and executed, that's my main point.

How? Based on what? You don't think teams out west could have figured that out? The Heat very well could have beat other western teams. But your automatic dismissal of other teams beating them is bullshit, especially when I showed how you were wrong about the Spurs in the first place.

friendfromlowry;1632500 wrote:Right. I should stop watching basketball when time and time again you've been incredibly outnumbered in everything you try to argue regarding the Heat. The reality is that the east is bad. Miami beat two teams that lost nearly as many games as they won, then beat a self-destructing Indiana team that had no business being there. They were there because, as I said, the east is bad. The first team out west the Heat ran into, they were exposed as a team with one elite player, two very good but often inconsistent/hurt players, and a bunch of other randomly assembled garbage. Idk what you think it is that San Antonio is doing that no other team can do, but they almost didn't make it to the finals by doing it.

Being outnumbered doesn't mean anything. Not trying to demean you but there is a demonstrative difference between how SA plays and everyone else. I agree the East wasn't very good last year but that's not their fault, you play who's in front of you. People also underestimate the revenge and fatigue factor. Miami was the first team since the mid 80's to make it to 4 straight NBA Finals. Lebron and company basically played 5 seasons over the last 4 years. SA was also extremely motivated to revenge the loss from last year and it showed, they won and were the better team. X's and O's wise you can't see a difference in what SA does and persay OKC? SA only has one elite player? Assembled garbage on the bench? What?

friendfromlowry;1632502 wrote:How? Based on what? You don't think teams out west could have figured that out? The Heat very well could have beat other western teams. But your automatic dismissal of other teams beating them is bullshit, especially when I showed how you were wrong about the Spurs in the first place.

No, you don't change you style of play over night. OKC was and is always going to be a my turn your turn offense unless they get a new coach. They also don't punish Miami down low the way you need to because they are a strictly jumpshooting team. I wasn't wrong about the Spurs, I respected them and thought the series could go either way. Just thought the games would be close enough where Lebron could will them to wins by making winning plays down the stretch, they never got to that point. I love watching the Spurs play btw, more teams should strive to play like them, no egos.

robj55;1632503 wrote:Being outnumbered doesn't mean anything. Not trying to demean you but there is a demonstrative difference between how SA plays and everyone else. I agree the East wasn't very good last year but that's not their fault, you play who's in front of you. People also underestimate the revenge and fatigue factor. Miami was the first team since the mid 80's to make it to 4 straight NBA Finals. Lebron and company basically played 5 seasons over the last 4 years. SA was also extremely motivated to revenge the loss from last year and it showed, they won and were the better team. X's and O's wise you can't see a difference in what SA does and persay OKC? SA only has one elite player? Assembled garbage on the bench? What?

He's talking about Heat, with one elite player, and their assembled garbage

HighRoller74;1632505 wrote:He's talking about Heat, with one elite player, and their assembled garbage

Okay I misread that part then.

robj55;1632499 wrote:Ibaka has no interior game, he is a face up jump shooter. He's a good shot blocker however and a decent rebounder.

Sounds an awful lot like bosh lol

KB0938;1632510 wrote:Sounds an awful lot like bosh lol

Pretty much just not as good/skilled offensively. Ibaka couldn't get you 24 and 10 as a number one option like Bosh did, but he's very good as a third wheel.

robj55;1632503 wrote:Being outnumbered doesn't mean anything. Not trying to demean you but there is a demonstrative difference between how SA plays and everyone else. I agree the East wasn't very good last year but that's not their fault, you play who's in front of you. People also underestimate the revenge and fatigue factor. Miami was the first team since the mid 80's to make it to 4 straight NBA Finals. Lebron and company basically played 5 seasons over the last 4 years. SA was also extremely motivated to revenge the loss from last year and it showed, they won and were the better team. X's and O's wise you can't see a difference in what SA does and persay OKC? SA only has one elite player? Assembled garbage on the bench? What?

Now we're playing the fatigue/revenge card. I thought this was the team that was going to win "not 1, not 2, not 3...." No, I can't see how San Antonio's gameplan against the Heat would be night and day different than what other western teams would have done because we didn't see Miami vs Portland, or Los Angeles, or Oklahoma City. (Oklahoma City, by the way, would have been motivated by revenge, too. But is that only applicable with the Spurs?) Maybe, they could have formulated something to compete with the Heat. That was my point. You're the one who claims they definitely couldn't. But, you were wrong before, so maybe you're wrong again. And being outnumbered only means that not many (in your case, no one) agrees with what you're saying. Perhaps that indicates something? I'm not arguing anymore on this. I think everyone would agree you get stubborn and irrational when it comes to the Heat.

Referencing what Miami did years ago with a younger Wade, bosh who wasn't checked out and role players like haslem, Miller and battier who were young and productive not old and semi useless, gone or retired lol.

Not sure how that plays into here and now

Rob, give it up, you're wrong and your bias towards the Heat is laughable at this point.

"Honestly if think what SA and any of those other teams out west are doing on the floor is comparable you should stop watching"

Well let's see, the Spurs had an overall net rating of 8.3 to lead the league, Clippers were second at 7.3, Thunder 3rd at 7.1 Then lo and behold, Miami in 4th at 6.1

That's 3 Western Conference teams that were better overall during the regular season, proving EVERYONE'S (except you, the biased Heat defender, hmmmm) point that the Heat were not even close to a guarantee over the Thunder or even the Clippers.

Even if you don't want to look at stats, the eye test is obvious: 1) Thunder were better this year than when the Heat beat them a few years ago; 2) The Spurs are better than they were last year, and the Thunder made a very interesting series out of it when Ibaka came back; 3) The Heat are actually a lot worse this year, something I pointed out before the finals and was the crux of my Spurs in 5 pick.

So the Thunder are better, the Spurs are better, the Clippers were better overall, and yet no team other than the Spurs would have beaten Miami.

Got it ya flaming homer.

friendfromlowry;1632512 wrote:Now we're playing the fatigue/revenge card. I thought this was the team that was going to win "not 1, not 2, not 3...." No, I can't see how San Antonio's gameplan against the Heat would be night and day different than what other western teams would have done because we didn't see Miami vs Portland, or Los Angeles, or Oklahoma City. (Oklahoma City, by the way, would have been motivated by revenge, too. But is that only applicable with the Spurs?) Maybe, they could have formulated something to compete with the Heat. That was my point. You're the one who claims they definitely couldn't. But, you were wrong before, so maybe you're wrong again. And being outnumbered only means that not many (in your case, no one) agrees with what you're saying. Perhaps that indicates something? I'm not arguing anymore on this. I think everyone would agree you get stubborn and irrational when it comes to the Heat.

I'm not making excuses just saying those things play a factor. We watch those other teams play enough to know what they are, can't change your identity overnight was my point. Didn't say they couldn't be competitive either but they wouldn't win in a seven game series. I can handle people not agreeing with me on things like Wade not being a top sg and things like that, that's your opinion and I respect that although I disagree. I'm not being stubborn I'm just seeing things from another perspective, giving the other side of the coin and partaking in good debate with you guys.

lhslep134;1632514 wrote:Rob, give it up, you're wrong and your bias towards the Heat is laughable at this point.

"no one else in the West like the Spurs."

Well let's see, the Spurs had an overall net rating of 8.3 to lead the league, Clippers were second at 7.3, Thunder 3rd at 7.1 Then lo and behold, Miami in 4th at 6.1

That's 3 Western Conference teams that were better overall during the regular season, proving EVERYONE'S (except you, the biased Heat defender, hmmmm) point that the Heat were not even close to a guarantee over the Thunder or even the Clippers.

Even if you don't want to look at stats, the eye test is obvious: 1) Thunder were better this year than when the Heat beat them a few years ago; 2) The Spurs are better than they were last year, and the Thunder made a very interesting series out of it when Ibaka came back; 3) The Heat are actually a lot worse this year, something I pointed out before the finals and was the crux of my Spurs in 5 pick.

So the Thunder are better, the Spurs are better, the Clippers were better overall, and yet no team other than the Spurs would have beaten Miami.

Got it ya flaming homer.

Stop with the metrics, they mean nothing to me. You obviously never played a day in your life if you go off metrics for every argument. The game is played on the floor, and we saw what those teams were and weren't. Regular season means nothing either, you really think Miami cared about the regular season? They were starting Tony Douglas and James Jones many nights, they were just trying to get to the playoffs. Wade took many nights off as well that he could have played. They knew all the had to do was get in the playoffs with a top two seed and they did that. If you think OKC could beat Miami in a seven game series I can't take your opinion serious, they don't have the style to do so and it's been proven over the last few years.

Miami could easily be beat by OKC, this isn't the same Miami that bested them in the finals. Hell neither team is the same. Not sure how you're positive they couldn't win when the series didn't even happen

KB0938;1632517 wrote:Miami could easily be beat by OKC, this isn't the same Miami that bested them in the finals. Hell neither team is the same. Not sure how you're positive they couldn't win when the series didn't even happen

Because of styles of play. OKC plays right into Miami's game on defense with their terrible shot selection and contested jump shooting mentatlity, and they sure as hell couldn't stop them or slow them down defensively like SA did.

They didn't do anything special on D to smother wade or bosh or Chalmers they just neglected to show up. Lebron was the only one who went off and they really didn't have much of an answer for him like most teams don't.
The heat might like OKcs style of play but they don't exactly have a single person to guard Westbrook and Durant either. .unless Lebron checks him the whole game which I highly doubt happens BC 1.he'd he risking serious foul trouble and 2. He'd be exerting way too much energy to carry them on offense like he'd have to

KB0938;1632519 wrote:They didn't do anything special on D to smother wade or bosh or Chalmers they just neglected to show up. Lebron was the only one who went off and they really didn't have much of an answer for him like most teams don't.
The heat might like OKcs style of play but they don't exactly have a single person to guard Westbrook and Durant either. .unless Lebron checks him the whole game which I highly doubt happens BC 1.he'd he risking serious foul trouble and 2. He'd be exerting way too much energy to carry them on offense like he'd have to

Lebron is probably the only guy in the league who can guard Durant. He can't stop him but he can limit him in spots. Russ guards himself half the time with his horrible shot selection. Durant can't do anything with Lebron on D, Lebron either goes by him or posts him up. Durant and Westbrook actually played really well the last time they were in the finals and they had Harden and still lost in 5 games because Miami out executed them and Lebron made the winning plays. Like you said Miami isn't quite as good as they were then but neither is OKC. I'm just not a big fan of Scott Brooks, their offense is my turn your turn isolation, they don't get any role players involved. Just doesn't bode well over seven games with Miami as we saw before. They don't executing in the crucial moments, which is why they haven't won anything.

robj55;1632516 wrote:Stop with the metrics, they mean nothing to me. You obviously never played a day in your life if you go off metrics for every argument. The game is played on the floor, and we saw what those teams were and weren't.

Oh I know what I'm watching too Rob, but your entire argument is the eye test, so something needs to shut you up, and yet you won't accept it because it shows you're wrong.

You know what I saw when I watched all of these teams play? Spurs over Heat in 5. Why? Because the Heat this year were a shell of their team from even last year without Miller and Battier to avoid overextending players, a decrepit Wade, and a weaker defense.

So hate on me all you want, but so far I've proven that my NBA knowledge is superior to yours, at least when it comes to your flaming homerism of the Heat.


Edit: I love how you glossed over the part of my post explicitly mentioning the eye test, because it allowed me to repeat it here.

robj55;1632520 wrote:Lebron is probably the only guy in the league who can guard Durant. He can't stop him but he can limit him in spots. Russ guards himself half the time with his horrible shot selection. Durant can't do anything with Lebron on D, Lebron either goes by him or posts him up. Durant and Westbrook actually played really well the last time they were in the finals and they had Harden and still lost in 5 games because Miami out executed them and Lebron made the winning plays. Like you said Miami isn't quite as good as they were then but neither is OKC. I'm just not a big fan of Scott Brooks, their offense is my turn your turn isolation, they don't get any role players involved. Just doesn't bode well over seven games with Miami as we saw before. They don't executing in the crucial moments, which is why they haven't won anything.

I know Lebron cannn guard Durant but he usually doesn't. Hell Lebron usually doesn't guard melo,Durant ,George ect. They put him off ball to conserve energy . If Lebron had to guard Durant the entire game his offense would struggle immensely at the end of a long season. And they literally have nobody else even capable of slowing Durant down. Neither team matches up well with the other. Which is why I don't think it's predetermined that OKc would go down

robj55;1632516[B wrote:]Stop with the metrics, they mean nothing to me. You obviously never played a day in your life if you go off metrics for every argument. [/B]The game is played on the floor, and we saw what those teams were and weren't. Regular season means nothing either, you really think Miami cared about the regular season? They were starting Tony Douglas and James Jones many nights, they were just trying to get to the playoffs. Wade took many nights off as well that he could have played. They knew all the had to do was get in the playoffs with a top two seed and they did that. If you think OKC could beat Miami in a seven game series I can't take your opinion serious, they don't have the style to do so and it's been proven over the last few years.

Could have just said, "Oh yeah!?....I've got nothing" and saved us all a lot of time. Thanks.