Hunter86;1661341 wrote:Riddle me this Batman (Wcalfan): Over the past 3 or so years, How has "soft" parents and society produced 3 League Titles, 3 Sectional titles 3 District titles as well as a STATE TEAM title in wrestling? hmmmmmmm

I think a couple of 'em even play football too. (or did)

Go Bears !

Going for popcorn now.

From that rather melancholy lady at the concession stand. (Body like a melon, face like a collie), but she has great popcorn, even the Norwayne fans think our popcorn is the best !

Melancholy! NICE!

Well played! Does this "secrete society" only exist in Apple Creek, or should we all be on the lookout? If it is everywhere, how does anyone ever win? On serious note, the Waynedale kids are not soft, or quitters. They are being forced to play in an offensive system that does play to their strengths, and this impacts the defense as well.

An early glance at the D6 playoffs...


D6 R19 (WCAL teams- Hillsdale, Dalton, Smithville & Rittman)


This region looks brutal with 5 teams at 6-0 including defending champ Kirtland. A WCAL team getting in might be a challenge and advancing very far here looks even more difficult considering...
Hillsdale has already lost big to Loudonville (6-0 5th in pts)
Dalton took its lumps from Garaway (6-0 2nd in pts)
Smithville got one on the chin from Mogadore (6-0 1st in pts)


When you factor in none of them has faced Chippewa yet and the combined record of opponents yet to be faced is Dalton (17-7), Smithville (16-8) & Hillsdale (16-8).


My point here is, the rest of the regular season is a rough road and the region looks like it may be very difficult to qualify in, let alone advance.


I hope 1 of the 3 can make it, but I wouldn't be surprised if nobody qualified.


anyone else got a take?

This is an obvious statement, but if one of them can knock off Chippewa and win out they should get in. However, I don't think any of them can score enough to accomplish that feat. I think the league only sends one team to the playoffs this year.

Red Rum;1661355 wrote:An early glance at the D6 playoffs...


D6 R19 (WCAL teams- Hillsdale, Dalton, Smithville & Rittman)


This region looks brutal with 5 teams at 6-0 including defending champ Kirtland. A WCAL team getting in might be a challenge and advancing very far here looks even more difficult considering...
Hillsdale has already lost big to Loudonville (6-0 5th in pts)
Dalton took its lumps from Garaway (6-0 2nd in pts)
Smithville got one on the chin from Mogadore (6-0 1st in pts)


When you factor in none of them has faced Chippewa yet and the combined record of opponents yet to be faced is Dalton (17-7), Smithville (16-8) & Hillsdale (16-8).


My point here is, the rest of the regular season is a rough road and the region looks like it may be very difficult to qualify in, let alone advance.


I hope 1 of the 3 can make it, but I wouldn't be surprised if nobody qualified.


anyone else got a take?

Awesome breakdown here, Red Rum. Didn't really put it together that none of those three have played Chippewa yet. The league should have an exceptionally entertaining final 4 weeks of the season!

Hunter86;1661341 wrote:Riddle me this Batman (Wcalfan): Over the past 3 or so years, How has "soft" parents and society produced 3 League Titles, 3 Sectional titles 3 District titles as well as a STATE TEAM title in wrestling? hmmmmmmm

I think a couple of 'em even play football too. (or did)

Go Bears !

Going for popcorn now.

From that rather melancholy lady at the concession stand. (Body like a melon, face like a collie), but she has great popcorn, even the Norwayne fans think our popcorn is the best !

Riddler (Hunter)...I think we have been over this before son. I talked about this 2 years ago. First, let me make sure everyone understands (especially beast) that I am NOT disrespecting our wrestling program whatsoever. That being said...football is probably the ultimate TEAM sport. You cannot compare wrestling/football. Yes, we have won a bunch of "team" titles in wrestling but it isn't the same as football. Heck we won a state title in wrestling but over half of our TEAM didn't even wrestle a match down in Columbus. I know, I know...those that didn't wrestle in Columbus practiced with the guys and cheered them on but come on! Let me ask you this...since they have started the State Team Duals Tournament...how many of those titles have we won? How many times have we even made it down to the final 8 down in Columbus? (Remember, these are the closest thing to a true TEAM title in wrestling.) I can answer that..zero. Let's be honest here...we didn't advance in those duals because certain wrestlers took an INDIVIDUAL approach to them rather than a TEAM approach. Beast knows that those "individuals" were greatly influenced by who???????? Again, I have all the admiration in the world for our wrestling program but you simply can't compare the 2 sports. Wrestling is an inherently individualistic sport and football is not! In football it takes ALL 11 guys to do their jobs on a play in order to make it successful. I am telling you this...we have kids that don't buy into the TEAM concept and if you don't see that, then you are blind. Why don't they buy into the TEAM? Let me guess...it's Coach Z's fault...NO! That's a cop out! Where does it start???

I think blaming the parents for not buying in is not the answer here.

Waynedale has had great recent success with wrestling, girls softball, girls volleyball, some records in track events & the parents & booster club all pitched in to get a new building built, both for the benefit of football, track, & wrestling, as well as the fans for those events.

Really there is a solid core group of good parents & supporters here, despite the attendance at last weeks rainy football game.

We don't currently have a line of big farm boys & a bull running back like in years past.

Sports are a lot like a poker game, you have to play with what you're dealt & bluffing isn't going to get too far.

kids having to play both sides of the ball really limit us right now & the kids can't keep up the pace both ways without getting gassed 3/4 of the way through.

You can't compare today's program to those of 25 years ago. Between soccer coming more popular, fall baseball leagues & other things drawing kids away from football, today's kids have way more to choose from than we did.

Yes it is the coach's responsibility to get his players to buy in to what he is preaching and create a team atmosphere! Look at the Browns, none of the past coaches since 99 could get the team to come together and make a comeback like last week or in week 1. In one post I stated Bohley at Chippewa was winning with the same kids that went 1-29; you quickly pointed out a sophomore class and a kid from Barberton. You missed the whole point. Yes, maybe some kids are gone, and some are new, but the point is, he created a culture where the kids bought in! They believe in him, and each other. If you think they are the most talented team in the league you are wrong. They play in a system that best utilizes their talents, and they are unselfish. Their slogan last year, and this is "FAMilY", but in this case it is more than a slogan. You seem to be fixated on X's and O's, and talent, but you miss the most important thing, LEADERSHIP! Now, if you honestly look at your team, and honestly assess the situation, and even some of your posts, you will see what's missing! I know very little about Hillsdale, but it's obvious those kids buy in. They get the most out of what's there. Sure there will be down years, but it's all about maximizing talent, and Waynedale currently is not. The kids aren't 100% in, and the scheme is wrong for the talent, all that goes back to one person.

There are levels to the "buy in". At the base the coach needs to have the respect and trust of the kids for much of anything to happen. What I have witnessed is at a point when individual players think they are good they can be a team player or they can act as though the team can not survive with out them. At this point the parents have a big influence, are they telling the kid he should be getting more touches ect. You can sit in the stands on Friday nights and find the answer just by listening to them cheer, if they yell their kids name a lot and only their kids name then they are usually not helping with the "team" spirit. Most parents have very little understanding of what it takes to play ball at the collage level and the idea of scholarships for Johnny, who plays pretty well at the D5 level, clouds their thinking. I, personally have seen what a team that was a family acts like on and off the field. I have had five or six seniors camped out at my house from Friday night to Sunday evening at game film time not just once or twice but every week of the season. Those kids do not want to be the one to let the others down.

Hunter86;1661433 wrote:I think blaming the parents for not buying in is not the answer here.

Waynedale has had great recent success with wrestling, girls softball, girls volleyball, some records in track events & the parents & booster club all pitched in to get a new building built, both for the benefit of football, track, & wrestling, as well as the fans for those events.

Really there is a solid core group of good parents & supporters here, despite the attendance at last weeks rainy football game.

We don't currently have a line of big farm boys & a bull running back like in years past.

Sports are a lot like a poker game, you have to play with what you're dealt & bluffing isn't going to get too far.

kids having to play both sides of the ball really limit us right now & the kids can't keep up the pace both ways without getting gassed 3/4 of the way through.

You can't compare today's program to those of 25 years ago. Between soccer coming more popular, fall baseball leagues & other things drawing kids away from football, today's kids have way more to choose from than we did.

I am not saying that buy in from parents is the ONLY answer but it is a BIG part of the equation. Wrestling isn't just recent success...it has always been a solid program at Waynedale and I think a big reason is the stability at the head coach position. Not even sure why you bring up track & field records (well...I do know why but....). We break track and field records on a yearly basis...so no "current" success only with that one PLUS how many WCAL TEAM titles do we have in boys/girls track???? I think it is ONE in the HISTORY of the school. I will agree with you that softball and volleyball have had recent success but again....why? Have we not had a great run of talent in both of those sports. Volleyball has had the same coach now for about 10 years (I think)...her first 5 years weren't great....her coaching style hasn't changed....her philosophy hasn't changed...what changed???? hmmmmm....could it be the level of talent? Which she does get some credit for because she pushed them to play JO (although it has hurt some other girls sports because that is what specialization does at a school our size) but we still have had a nice run of girl athletes recently. Not saying that we don't have some athletes among our boys but not on a consistent basis. Please don't say I am bashing our boys...just sometimes the truth hurts!

We do have a good corp group of parents but not enough! There are still many out there that just don't get it! Plus, I really see a lot of nepotism among our parents. Heck, you even sense it on this forum and it is truly very sad.

Sports is like a poker game huh? Play the hand you are dealt? I agree you have to adapt but hasn't Coach Z done that? Don't you think he is using the strengths of our players? We have a qb, rb, and rb/wr who are top 5 in the area in their respective categories...right? That's not bluffing to me.....Now that isn't translating into wins but why? Well...we could go on forever but just look at the games we lost...turnovers, turnovers, turnovers...who controls that? I'm just asking

Kids playing both sides of the ball? Really? Hmmmm....isn't that what happens on ALL small school football teams? We really can't control that, can we? However, now that you brought it up...the one year that Z did have the numbers to have a lot of one-way players all you heard was complaining from people like you. "Kids playing out of position"..."Not using our best athletes enough"...."This platooning system sucks!". We went 7-3 that year and people said the reason we lost 3 games was because of Coach Z and the one-way playing system. People forgot that we went over to Northwestern last game that year and laid an egg and lost to a much younger team and lost out on a 3rd straight WCAL title. MAKE UP YOUR MIND! Maybe I should cut you some slack though because that was right before you decided to become "football dad".

Go Falcons;1661450 wrote:There are levels to the "buy in". At the base the coach needs to have the respect and trust of the kids for much of anything to happen. What I have witnessed is at a point when individual players think they are good they can be a team player or they can act as though the team can not survive with out them. At this point the parents have a big influence, are they telling the kid he should be getting more touches ect. You can sit in the stands on Friday nights and find the answer just by listening to them cheer, if they yell their kids name a lot and only their kids name then they are usually not helping with the "team" spirit. Most parents have very little understanding of what it takes to play ball at the collage level and the idea of scholarships for Johnny, who plays pretty well at the D5 level, clouds their thinking. I, personally have seen what a team that was a family acts like on and off the field. I have had five or six seniors camped out at my house from Friday night to Sunday evening at game film time not just once or twice but every week of the season. Those kids do not want to be the one to let the others down.

Well said.

Based on the attendance at Fridays game, the quotes from the coach, and the overall dysfunction that has been communicated on here about administration, all the kids have is each other.

wcalfan;1661457 wrote:Well said.

Boy you reach for any excuse, except one....that maybe part of the equation, but you refuse to look at the bigger picture. You don't think there is some parent at every school who thinks his boy should be the star? If not your delusional. I'd really like to hear your response to my comment on my comparison to the Chippewa or Hillsdale situation vs Norwayne?

Wcal observer;1661485 wrote:Based on the attendance at Fridays game, the quotes from the coach, and the overall dysfunction that has been communicated on here about administration, all the kids have is each other.

Quotes from coach?...I never did get an answer to my question about Thut's quotes in the paper. Weren't they VERY similar to what Z said? If so...are they both throwing their kids under the bus?

Dysfunction communicated about administration? Please elaborate? I guess I don't get that feeling from the posts on here but MAYBE that would help me....

Wcal observer;1661486 wrote:Boy you reach for any excuse, except one....that maybe part of the equation, but you refuse to look at the bigger picture. You don't think there is some parent at every school who thinks his boy should be the star? If not your delusional. I'd really like to hear your response to my comment on my comparison to the Chippewa or Hillsdale situation vs Norwayne?

Trust me....I know there are parents at every school who think that their kids are stars but I don't think that is the problem with our parents. That is actually easier to handle than parents who are constantly questioning what the coach does...

It is much easier to create a "culture" when you have kids that can execute on Friday nights. 2 years ago we were 0-10 because EVERY Friday night we couldn't match the talent level of the opposing team. Not bashing our kids just speaking the truth. Last year we go 6-4 because we had improved talent and beat the teams we were supposed to beat BUT still couldn't beat a "good" team...however, we did improve. This year our talent has improved again but look at our 4 losses and the MAIN reason we lost 3 of those games (not Triway...again that game needs to be excluded for many reasons)...we didn't make plays on off or def when it mattered most AND we lost the turnover battle.

Prior to the 0-10 season...we had won 2 league titles and 3 playoff appearances WITH the Z as the coach. Why???

Go Falcons;1661450 wrote:There are levels to the "buy in". At the base the coach needs to have the respect and trust of the kids for much of anything to happen. What I have witnessed is at a point when individual players think they are good they can be a team player or they can act as though the team can not survive with out them. At this point the parents have a big influence, are they telling the kid he should be getting more touches ect. You can sit in the stands on Friday nights and find the answer just by listening to them cheer, if they yell their kids name a lot and only their kids name then they are usually not helping with the "team" spirit. Most parents have very little understanding of what it takes to play ball at the collage level and the idea of scholarships for Johnny, who plays pretty well at the D5 level, clouds their thinking. I, personally have seen what a team that was a family acts like on and off the field. I have had five or six seniors camped out at my house from Friday night to Sunday evening at game film time not just once or twice but every week of the season. Those kids do not want to be the one to let the others down.

This. Well-said.

wcalfan;1661454 wrote:I am not saying that buy in from parents is the ONLY answer but it is a BIG part of the equation. Wrestling isn't just recent success...it has always been a solid program at Waynedale and I think a big reason is the stability at the head coach position. Not even sure why you bring up track & field records (well...I do know why but....). We break track and field records on a yearly basis...so no "current" success only with that one PLUS how many WCAL TEAM titles do we have in boys/girls track???? I think it is ONE. I will agree with you that softball and volleyball have had recent success but again....why? Have we not had a great run of talent in both of those sports. Volleyball has had the same coach now for about 10 years (I think)...her first 5 years weren't great....her coaching style hasn't changed....her philosophy hasn't changed...what changed???? hmmmmm....could it be the level of talent? Which she does get some credit for because she pushed them to play JO (although I don't like specialization...) but we still have had a nice run of girl athletes recently. Not saying that we don't have some athletes among our boys but not on a consistent basis. Please don't say I am bashing our boys...just sometimes the truth hurts!

We do have a good corp group of parents but not enough! There are still many out there that just don't get it! Plus, I really see a lot of nepotism among our parents. Heck, you even sense it on this forum and it is truly very sad.

Sports is like a poker game huh? Play the hand you are dealt? I agree you have to adapt but hasn't Coach Z done that? Don't you think he is using the strengths of our players? We have a qb, rb, and rb/wr who are top 5 in the area in their respective categories...right? That's not bluffing to me.....Now that isn't translating into wins but why? Well...we could go on forever but just look at the games we lost...turnovers, turnovers, turnovers...who controls that? I'm just asking

Kids playing both sides of the ball? Really? Hmmmm....isn't that what happens on ALL small school football teams? We really can't control that, can we? However, now that you brought it up...the one year that Z did have the numbers to have a lot of one-way players all you heard was complaining from people like you. "Kids playing out of position"..."Not using our best athletes enough"...."This platooning system sucks!". We went 7-3 that year and people said the reason we lost 3 games was because of Coach Z and the one-way playing system. People forgot that we went over to Northwestern last game that year and laid an egg and lost to a much younger team and lost out on a 3rd straight WCAL title. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Hmm ... This actually seems like a pretty reasonable post.

The sad truth of the matter is: there is no right or wrong answer. At times its the kids, class personalities vary almost as much as individual personalities. It can be the parents they vary also year to year. Sometimes coaches can not connect with a class. Some times there are issues that most people do not know about from the outside, academics, family, and behavioral issues; all of which affect how a coach deals with and uses a particular player. Coaches some times get left behind also, they stick with what has worked in the past to the point that they read like a book. I believe the best example of this was Smithville (que O-Trap), a great,great coach but he never adapted to the changes around the league and in football, being one dimensional only goes so far today. Yes, you do have to play with what you have but you also have to develop the ability. I believe coaches have the major effect on the success or failure of a team, but I am also slow to throw one under the bus because I do not always know the whole story of what is going on. I have heard many a bad comment about Hillsdale's coaching and play calling from Hillsdale fans, but they are the same coaches calling them as they were calling them in the regional finals. My son will not go to a football game, he went to one after he graduated and almost decked an old man for mouthing off about his coach. When you have that kind of loyalty from the kids that really played for a coach then it's hard to judge from the outside. If that loyalty is not there then the coach, I believe, comes into question.

Hunter86;1661341 wrote:Riddle me this Batman (Wcalfan): Over the past 3 or so years, How has "soft" parents and society produced 3 League Titles, 3 Sectional titles 3 District titles as well as a STATE TEAM title in wrestling? hmmmmmmm

I think a couple of 'em even play football too. (or did)

Go Bears !

Going for popcorn now.

From that rather melancholy lady at the concession stand. (Body like a melon, face like a collie), but she has great popcorn, even the Norwayne fans think our popcorn is the best !

You do have good popcorn

Go Falcons;1661528 wrote:The sad truth of the matter is: there is no right or wrong answer. At times its the kids, class personalities vary almost as much as individual personalities. It can be the parents they vary also year to year. Sometimes coaches can not connect with a class. Some times there are issues that most people do not know about from the outside, academics, family, and behavioral issues; all of which affect how a coach deals with and uses a particular player. Coaches some times get left behind also, they stick with what has worked in the past to the point that they read like a book. I believe the best example of this was Smithville (que O-Trap), a great,great coach but he never adapted to the changes around the league and in football, being one dimensional only goes so far today. Yes, you do have to play with what you have but you also have to develop the ability. I believe coaches have the major effect on the success or failure of a team, but I am also slow to throw one under the bus because I do not always know the whole story of what is going on. I have heard many a bad comment about Hillsdale's coaching and play calling from Hillsdale fans, but they are the same coaches calling them as they were calling them in the regional finals. My son will not go to a football game, he went to one after he graduated and almost decked an old man for mouthing off about his coach. When you have that kind of loyalty from the kids that really played for a coach then it's hard to judge from the outside. If that loyalty is not there then the coach, I believe, comes into question.

That does happen, but what happened with Schrock was a little different. When the tools were tailored for it, he'd gone five-wide in the shotgun prior to his retirement (not 100% of the time, of course). They also used the spread a lot during the 2002 season.

His was more a case of not being as present and seen during off-season workouts and such after he retired from teaching and moved to Florida. Or at least that was what I gathered from the buzz.

However, your point does stand. If a coach doesn't adapt to his skill set and his opponents, he will stop being successful.

wcalfan;1661419 wrote:Riddler (Hunter)...I think we have been over this before son. I talked about this 2 years ago. First, let me make sure everyone understands (especially beast) that I am NOT disrespecting our wrestling program whatsoever. That being said...football is probably the ultimate TEAM sport. You cannot compare wrestling/football. Yes, we have won a bunch of "team" titles in wrestling but it isn't the same as football. Heck we won a state title in wrestling but over half of our TEAM didn't even wrestle a match down in Columbus. I know, I know...those that didn't wrestle in Columbus practiced with the guys and cheered them on but come on! Let me ask you this...since they have started the State Team Duals Tournament...how many of those titles have we won? How many times have we even made it down to the final 8 down in Columbus? (Remember, these are the closest thing to a true TEAM title in wrestling.) I can answer that..zero. Let's be honest here...we didn't advance in those duals because certain wrestlers took an INDIVIDUAL approach to them rather than a TEAM approach. Beast knows that those "individuals" were greatly influenced by who???????? Again, I have all the admiration in the world for our wrestling program but you simply can't compare the 2 sports. Wrestling is an inherently individualistic sport and football is not! In football it takes ALL 11 guys to do their jobs on a play in order to make it successful. I am telling you this...we have kids that don't buy into the TEAM concept and if you don't see that, then you are blind. Why don't they buy into the TEAM? Let me guess...it's Coach Z's fault...NO! That's a cop out! Where does it start???

Since you mention me, I thought I would share this list of accomplishments that took both individual and TEAM contributions in wrestling. I'll touch on State Duals (that have been going on longer than the last 2 years that "we didnt make it to the final 8".

Last 10 years:

Duals 228-29 (.887)

WCAL: 1st (7x), 2nd (3x)

Sectionals 1st (6x), 2nd (3x), 3rd (1x) (14 teams)

Districts 1st (4x), 2nd (3x), 3rd (2x), 4th (1), 5th (1) (50+ teams)

State 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 10th, 18th (200+ teams)

State Duals 3rd (year we won 1st in Columbus), 5th, 5th, (might be a 7th in there)

State Duals AFTER new format: Regional Finalists (2x)

I didnt include tournament titles, but I think its at 29 for the just last 4 years?

(For Wcalfan, there were State Duals prior to the last 2 seasons)

There are/were alot of athletes that wrestled and played football. The society and parenting has been soft. These accomplishments many times took little Jimmy winning when he wasn't supposed to, (ironically, an example would be Sean Sedar wrestling and winning a match with a dislocated elbow? in 2004 to secure the WCAL crown Or Brad Wardell wrestling with injury and eventually forfeiting to 4th place at sectionals to 4th at districts to 3rd at State) or little Joey moving weights to benefit the TEAM. It takes the TEAM to win the Duals, WCAL and Sectional while District and State is more about Jimmies and Joes (I guess).

Just some stats.

There is no particular point or agenda here, other than showing facts. I thought it interesting that at least the last 10 years that these numbers JUMP. Nearly every record has been broken/re-wrote in that time span. Just when you think its going to be a down year, a few kids step up and replace the grads. Something works here. Off season? Diet? Parents? Jimmies and Joes? I dont know. Its individual and individuals have cost TEAM wins...but they also has garnered TEAM success.

1_beast;1661792 wrote:Since you mention me, I thought I would share this list of accomplishments that took both individual and TEAM contributions in wrestling. I'll touch on State Duals (that have been going on longer than the last 2 years that "we didnt make it to the final 8".

Last 10 years:

Duals 228-29 (.887)

WCAL: 1st (7x), 2nd (3x)

Sectionals 1st (6x), 2nd (3x), 3rd (1x) (14 teams)

Districts 1st (4x), 2nd (3x), 3rd (2x), 4th (1), 5th (1) (50+ teams)

State 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 10th, 18th (200+ teams)

State Duals 3rd (year we won 1st in Columbus), 5th, 5th, (might be a 7th in there)

State Duals AFTER new format: Regional Finalists (2x)

I didnt include tournament titles, but I think its at 29 for the just last 4 years?

(For Wcalfan, there were State Duals prior to the last 2 seasons)

There are/were alot of athletes that wrestled and played football. The society and parenting has been soft. These accomplishments many times took little Jimmy winning when he wasn't supposed to, (ironically, an example would be Sean Sedar wrestling and winning a match with a dislocated elbow? in 2004 to secure the WCAL crown Or Brad Wardell wrestling with injury and eventually forfeiting to 4th place at sectionals to 4th at districts to 3rd at State) or little Joey moving weights to benefit the TEAM. It takes the TEAM to win the Duals, WCAL and Sectional while District and State is more about Jimmies and Joes (I guess).

Just some stats.

There is no particular point or agenda here, other than showing facts. I thought it interesting that at least the last 10 years that these numbers JUMP. Nearly every record has been broken/re-wrote in that time span. Just when you think its going to be a down year, a few kids step up and replace the grads. Something works here. Off season? Diet? Parents? Jimmies and Joes? I dont know. Its individual and individuals have cost TEAM wins...but they also has garnered TEAM success.

Good information (big time REPS)! But believe me...I know our wrestling program is one of the best in the entire state. However, my point is/was that you can't compare wrestling/football (Hunter) and I just tried to show why that is. Trust me, it wasn't easy to do that because I would NEVER want to take anything away from what they have accomplished on a VERY consistent basis. But, let's use last year just for comparison sakes (not that it would matter because we would still dominate our league)..how many schools actually had full teams (14 wrestlers - 1 in each weight class)? I believe only 2 (Us and Northwestern) The next closest I think was Chippewa with 8. I know that's not something we should hold against Waynedale/Northwestern but I have to mention it because we are not comparing apples to apples. I am not sure how we would show that but I guess it would be the equivalent of an 11 man football team competing against a team with only 7 players. First of all it wouldn't happen because you have to have 11 men on each side of the ball or you don't even play the game. Therefore, when you use the word TEAM in wrestling it is so different than TEAM in football.

Also, I did know that the State Duals were around before the new format started, however, it was organized much differently. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was more like an "invite only" 1-day tourney, right? You were "invited" based on the amount of qualifiers (district???) you had returning, right? Only 8 teams were invited, correct? Which again makes it a very elite tournament. I think I remember attending one of these one year out in the western part of the state. So it is quite possible that some of the better teams in the state weren't even participating in this event prior to the start of the new format. Hence (I'm assuming)...this would be part of the reason they started the new format...to give everyone a chance. Now you could argue that a good number of the top teams were there because they had a strong group returning but still not all teams were in the tourney...especially with the frequency of transfers in wrestling. Please...again I am not trying to knock our wrestling program! Just trying to show that you simply can't compare the TEAM concept of the 2 sports.

I guess my post wasn't intended for comparison (apples to oranges) rather than consistency. Like I said, I had and have absolutely NO agenda. Im just a fan. My son didn't play for Z, my daughter certainly doesn't and my youngest is in elementary. I don't know the man.
Perhaps if I had an agenda, per se, it would be that of un-supportive parents causing failure. YOU know as well as I do, that there has been plenty of "un-supportive" parents in and around the Sea of Gold!

1_beast;1661811 wrote:I guess my post wasn't intended for comparison (apples to oranges) rather than consistency. Like I said, I had and have absolutely NO agenda. Im just a fan. My son didn't play for Z, my daughter certainly doesn't and my youngest is in elementary. I don't know the man.
Perhaps if I had an agenda, per se, it would be that of un-supportive parents causing failure. YOU know as well as I do, that there has been plenty of "un-supportive" parents in and around the Sea of Gold!

You are correct! Good conversation...

Wcalfan: I am not sure now if you even know what you are looking for. Now under normal small school situations I would expect 3/4 of these wrestlers would also play football. In Waynedale's case these are athletes, they have proven that. They know how to work and are not afraid of it. That would give you at least 10 athletes and probably more. I do not know if these kids are out at Waynedale, but if they are not then why? Ask any coach "Can you have success with 10 kids that excelled in another sport" and you will get yes, I bet every time. Most schools when they are good in one major sport they are competitive in all sports that year, it carries over. In D5 and D6 you don't usually have more than 2 or 3 real stand outs and losing just one can change a whole season. The rest are very important and need to do a good job but those couple of kids will make or break you. There are proven athletes at Waynedale and not just in wrestling, why are they not effective on the football field?

Go Falcons;1661817 wrote:Wcalfan: I am not sure now if you even know what you are looking for. Now under normal small school situations I would expect 3/4 of these wrestlers would also play football. In Waynedale's case these are athletes, they have proven that. They know how to work and are not afraid of it. That would give you at least 10 athletes and probably more. I do not know if these kids are out at Waynedale, but if they are not then why? Ask any coach "Can you have success with 10 kids that excelled in another sport" and you will get yes, I bet every time. Most schools when they are good in one major sport they are competitive in all sports that year, it carries over. In D5 and D6 you don't usually have more than 2 or 3 real stand outs and losing just one can change a whole season. The rest are very important and need to do a good job but those couple of kids will make or break you. There are proven athletes at Waynedale and not just in wrestling, why are they not effective on the football field?

I am not "looking" for anything. I was simply trying to show Hunter (which is impossible) how you can't expect wrestling success to transfer to football success. We do probably have 2 wrestlers that didn't come out for football that would have been starting lineman for us and they have good size. I am sure there are more that should be playing as well but those were the first 2 that came to mind. We do have proven athletes on the football team but not as many as we should.