Cleveland Cavaliers Offseason 2014

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BR1986FB

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Jul 17, 2014 2:04 PM
robj55;1636911 wrote:There is a huge difference between raw potential and ability. People rave over Wiggins and his potential and athleticism but there are many unknowns about his game and areas to improve. Lebron James was a sure fire superstar the instant he stepped onto an NBA floor.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Wiggins is kind of raw & untapped. LBJ was a megastar in the making. Kind of the "can't miss" that most people thought Andrew Luck was when he was drafted by the NFL. Minimal flaws and ready to make an immediate impact. Nobody REALLY knows that about Wiggins. TON of potential there but not a "can't miss" like Lebron was.
Jul 17, 2014 2:04pm
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robj55

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Jul 17, 2014 2:10 PM
BR1986FB;1636914 wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Wiggins is kind of raw & untapped. LBJ was a megastar in the making. Kind of the "can't miss" that most people thought Andrew Luck was when he was drafted by the NFL. Minimal flaws and ready to make an immediate impact. Nobody REALLY knows that about Wiggins. TON of potential there but not a "can't miss" like Lebron was.
Exactly, that's all I was trying to say. Lebron was the total package right away including bball IQ and intangibles, but he had to learn how to win. Wiggins could very well end up being a superstar, but Lebron was one right away.
Jul 17, 2014 2:10pm
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sleeper

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Jul 17, 2014 2:16 PM
robj55;1636911 wrote:There is a huge difference between raw potential and ability. People rave over Wiggins and his potential and athleticism but there are many unknowns about his game and areas to improve. Lebron James was a sure fire superstar the instant he stepped onto an NBA floor.
Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.
Jul 17, 2014 2:16pm
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Automatik

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Jul 17, 2014 2:20 PM
I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
Jul 17, 2014 2:20pm
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BR1986FB

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Jul 17, 2014 2:24 PM
Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
Just like nobody is raving over Wiggins offensive skills. Being strong on the defensive end is a MAJOR bonus.
Jul 17, 2014 2:24pm
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robj55

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Jul 17, 2014 2:24 PM
sleeper;1636919 wrote:Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.
No but he was wayyy more complete of a player and his intangibles were already there. He had a much better feel for the game and an incredible ability to make others around him better with his unselfishness and vision.
Jul 17, 2014 2:24pm
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Dr. KnOiTaLL

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Jul 17, 2014 2:30 PM
sleeper;1636919 wrote:Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.
Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
You guys are missing the point. As a rookie, LeBron had HUGE expectations coming into the league, and he lived up to them by averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, and 5.5 rpg. While we all have high expectations, I don't think Wiggins will come close to those point and assist numbers. Yes, he has other guys that will be handling a majority of the scoring, so he won't be relied upon a ton, but in the same circumstances he would not had compiled similar statistics.

With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.
Jul 17, 2014 2:30pm
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vball10set

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Jul 17, 2014 2:30 PM
robj55;1636925 wrote:No but he was wayyy more complete of a player and his intangibles were already there. He had a much better feel for the game and an incredible ability to make others around him better with his unselfishness and vision.
I'm sorry, and if this was already asked, I apologize--how much of Wiggins have you actually watched?
Jul 17, 2014 2:30pm
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robj55

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Jul 17, 2014 2:33 PM
vball10set;1636929 wrote:I'm sorry, and if this was already asked, I apologize--how much of Wiggins have you actually watched?
I watched about 6 games last year, and have seen him in summer league this year. In no way am I trying to demean him, I've already said I think he will be great. Just stating that he isn't a once in a lifetime prospect like Lebron was. Wiggins could definitely end up being a superstar.
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
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Automatik

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Jul 17, 2014 2:33 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636928 wrote:You guys are missing the point. As a rookie, LeBron had HUGE expectations coming into the league, and he lived up to them by averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, and 5.5 rpg. While we all have high expectations, I don't think Wiggins will come close to those point and assist numbers. Yes, he has other guys that will be handling a majority of the scoring, so he won't be relied upon a ton, but in the same circumstances he would not had compiled similar statistics.

With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.

I agree with all of this.
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
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BR1986FB

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Jul 17, 2014 2:33 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636928 wrote: With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.
I agree with this. Athleticism is through the roof but he's still raw.

If you want to compare him (not you, KnOiTaLL) to LBJ, "hypothetically" trade him to the T-Wolves and look at what type of rookie season he'd have (I know that sounds weird). Bet he wouldn't put up nearly the numbers LBJ did as a rookie. He'll be good but it's going to take time and no way is he as much of a sure thing as Lebron was.
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
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sleeper

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Jul 17, 2014 2:39 PM
Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
Or his jump shot.
Jul 17, 2014 2:39pm
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Jul 17, 2014 2:56 PM
sleeper;1636936 wrote:Or his jump shot.
Yeah, that goes to show that even top players in NBA history had to constantly work to improve their game. LeBron was a poor shooter coming into the league. He's definitely improved that part of his game. Not saying he's automatic or anything, but much improved from 03-04
Jul 17, 2014 2:56pm
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Jul 17, 2014 3:08 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636947 wrote:Yeah, that goes to show that even top players in NBA history had to constantly work to improve their game. LeBron was a poor shooter coming into the league. He's definitely improved that part of his game. Not saying he's automatic or anything, but much improved from 03-04
That's exactly my point. The comparisons are there and are accurate. There's no guarantee he becomes "the next Lebron" but to say he doesn't have that game changing potential is ignorant.
Jul 17, 2014 3:08pm
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lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jul 17, 2014 3:23 PM
lol I call complete BS on that rumor. It definitely didn't come from us, because our FO under Gilbert doesn't leak anything. Ever. IMO it came from Minnesota's camp because the only one who benefits from this rumor is them by having other teams up their offers if we're offering Wiggins. Which we're not.
Jul 17, 2014 3:23pm
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Mulva

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Jul 17, 2014 3:29 PM
I still won't be convinced until his contract is signed.
Jul 17, 2014 3:29pm
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BR1986FB

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Jul 17, 2014 3:32 PM
lhslep134;1636954 wrote:lol I call complete BS on that rumor. It definitely didn't come from us, because our FO under Gilbert doesn't leak anything. Ever. IMO it came from Minnesota's camp because the only one who benefits from this rumor is them by having other teams up their offers if we're offering Wiggins. Which we're not.
I have been hearing that he's no longer untouchable but that proposed deal is giving up WAY too much and you don't do any deal unless Love agrees to the extension.
Jul 17, 2014 3:32pm
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Jul 17, 2014 3:47 PM
ernest_t_bass;1636953 wrote:Why does the front office seem so incompetent?
BR1986FB;1636956 wrote:I have been hearing that he's no longer untouchable but that proposed deal is giving up WAY too much and you don't do any deal unless Love agrees to the extension.
Joe Lull (@LullOnSports) says that he thinks the Cavs constant refusal to include Wiggins has been more for posturing to increase his value. I could definitely see that being the case as it would allow the Cavs to obtain Love for less than what the Wolves were initially asking. Additionally, he compared Wiggins to Shawn Marion when he was in his prime. He suggested that Wiggins has the potential to be better than Marion, but a similar type of player.
Jul 17, 2014 3:47pm
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lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jul 17, 2014 4:07 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636958 wrote:Joe Lull (@LullOnSports) says that he thinks the Cavs constant refusal to include Wiggins has been more for posturing to increase his value. I could definitely see that being the case as it would allow the Cavs to obtain Love for less than what the Wolves were initially asking.
We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.
Jul 17, 2014 4:07pm
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Lovejoy1984

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Jul 17, 2014 4:16 PM
If the T'Wolves stick on needing Wiggins, it's time to move on.

Call Danny Ferry, offer him Dion, TT, #1, for Horford
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ks2r7ac


Then if he says no, call Memphis
Same offer w/ Haywood for Marc Gasol
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l7l26f2

Obviously can add more #1s if needed to work, but Salary's match up.
Jul 17, 2014 4:16pm
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Mulva

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Jul 17, 2014 4:25 PM
lhslep134;1636959 wrote:We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.
There's a cap hold for first round picks. It doesn't count as $0.
Jul 17, 2014 4:25pm
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ZWICK 4 PREZ

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Jul 17, 2014 4:30 PM
lhslep134;1636959 wrote:We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.

Isnt there a cap hold since he's a rookie. He's not signed but there's a scaled value as a guaranteed rookie contract.
Jul 17, 2014 4:30pm
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lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jul 17, 2014 4:40 PM
Mulva;1636966 wrote:There's a cap hold for first round picks. It doesn't count as $0.
ZWICK 4 PREZ;1636968 wrote:Isnt there a cap hold since he's a rookie. He's not signed but there's a scaled value as a guaranteed rookie contract.
Shit yeah you're right good call. I know we're signing him for 120% of the slot but I forgot the cap hold is there even without the signature for trading purposes.

But it's only for $5M so we'd still need to give up more than just Bennett, so how can that really be considered a lesser package?
Jul 17, 2014 4:40pm