Eric Holder wants to release thousands of convicted Prisoners early

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Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

9,716 posts
Apr 23, 2014 11:51 AM
I’m buying more cutter bullets and guns with the hope that those non-violent drug offenders stay non-violent home/car thieves, gang members, muggers….
Apr 23, 2014 11:51am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 11:53 AM
isadore;1608284 wrote:as an increasing consensus shows the drug penalties are draconian and need adjusted toward the lesser range of the sentences.

Great. Maybe someday the range provided to a judge of lesser sentences will be in place. That day isn't today and nothing I proposed would violate the amendments that you stated. The initial problem posed was disparity in sentences. That disparity is eliminated with all convictions being sentenced at the maximum afforded by law.
Apr 23, 2014 11:53am
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 12:14 PM
why not actually rehabilitate these folks...give them some training. if i had the choice to make 8.00 an hour or make 800000 a year selling dope maybe i would do the same thing. the way it stands now, 10 years in jail and your probably a bigger criminal than you were when you went in.
Apr 23, 2014 12:14pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:18 PM
Gblock;1608308 wrote:why not actually rehabilitate these folks...give them some training. if i had the choice to make 8.00 an hour or make 800000 a year selling dope maybe i would do the same thing. the way it stands now, 10 years in jail and your probably a bigger criminal than you were when you went in.
There's plenty of trainning programs out there in the world. They are very much able to go seek them out. ...or they can try and make "800000" a year selling dope again and take the risk of being penalized for breaking the law.
Apr 23, 2014 12:18pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 12:21 PM
give them the option for military service
Apr 23, 2014 12:21pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:25 PM
Gblock;1608310 wrote:give them the option for military service
They already have that option....just like every other able body. Military service should never be received as a punishment or alternative to punishment.
Apr 23, 2014 12:25pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:28 PM
This is really very simple, until otherwise decided upon, society has determined that certain activities are not conducive to the type of society we are seeking to be and should be restricted and punished.

It's nt some civil right that people should be able to use or sell certain drugs. Society has said no to such activities. If society changes it's mind, so be it. Until then, there will be punishment for not abiding by the choice of our community.
Apr 23, 2014 12:28pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:30 PM
I'd say it's amazing that people are bitching about this, but politards be politards.
Apr 23, 2014 12:30pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 12:31 PM
sure everyone does have that option. however everyone doesnt grow up in south side chicago where most likely your mom/dad is dead or on crack, change schools/housing every 3 months., grow up around murder and drugs with little opportunity for a real education. maybe you get caught up in the life and learn your lesson. you shouldnt have to spend 20 years to try to rebuild your life. there should be some option of service whether civil or miltary or some option to redeem yourself besides rot in jail for 20 years for a few keys of coke/crack
Apr 23, 2014 12:31pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 12:32 PM
never mind ive been con alma'd
Apr 23, 2014 12:32pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:37 PM
Gblock;1608315 wrote:sure everyone does have that option. however everyone doesnt grow up in south side chicago where most likely your mom/dad is dead or on crack, change schools/housing every 3 months., grow up around murder and drugs with little opportunity for a real education. maybe you get caught up in the life and learn your lesson. you shouldnt have to spend 20 years to try to rebuild your life. there should be some option of service whether civil or miltary or some option to redeem yourself besides rot in jail for 20 years for a few keys of coke/crack
...so are you suggesting everyone shouldn't have the same legal penalty associated with such activities? What other crimes should have lesser penalties for those who grew up in difficult situations?

You should let your Congressman and Senator know so legislation can be introduced for such changes. ...until then....it's just verbal vomit we are all sharing.
Apr 23, 2014 12:37pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 12:41 PM
no one ever gets the same legal penalty for the same crime btw..its all relative to your lawyer/pastrecord/or your connections
Apr 23, 2014 12:41pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 12:47 PM
Gblock;1608322 wrote:no one ever gets the same legal penalty for the same crime btw..its all relative to your lawyer/pastrecord/or your connections
I understand that and it's why I offered my suggestion for the disparity that exists.

My question was seeking your opinion regarding if people should get lesser penalties for such activities based on their childhood background since you referenced it and if there were other crimes that such background should be considered in sentencing procedures.
Apr 23, 2014 12:47pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 1:04 PM
u can get whatever penalty you get...i just think there should be some road to redemption...actual rehabilitation. not just rot for 20-40 years for a non-violent crime. a ray of hope to change someones life
Apr 23, 2014 1:04pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 1:10 PM
Gblock;1608333 wrote:u can get whatever penalty you get...i just think there should be some road to redemption...actual rehabilitation. not just rot for 20-40 years for a non-violent crime. a ray of hope to change someones life
I understand. That's a different point than the disparity issues previously brought up. After the first offense why doesn't an individual rely upon their medicaid and enter a rehabilitation center? There are rehab centers that accept Medicaid.
Apr 23, 2014 1:10pm
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Gblock

Apr 23, 2014 1:21 PM
many drug dealers dont use drugs....dont get high on your own supply lol
Apr 23, 2014 1:21pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 23, 2014 2:05 PM
...then rehab....addiction rehab, is out of the equation for them. In that case I guess that scenario would go back to your statement of , "u can get whatever penalty you get". Job training and trade skill preparation is available for folks but they have to decide it's what they want.
Apr 23, 2014 2:05pm
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isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 23, 2014 5:41 PM
Gblock;1608308 wrote:why not actually rehabilitate these folks...give them some training. if i had the choice to make 8.00 an hour or make 800000 a year selling dope maybe i would do the same thing. the way it stands now, 10 years in jail and your probably a bigger criminal than you were when you went in.
for most of them 8.00 an hour would be an enormous raise. Read Freakanomics

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/24/opinion/oe-dubner24
Apr 23, 2014 5:41pm
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Gblock

Apr 24, 2014 8:19 AM
i just laugh at the those that are so self-righteous. con alma you werent self taught. all this wisdom you have you didnt just pick up a book at 6 years old and learn all this wisdom that you have. someone taught it to you. many people dont have that opportunity. giving someone 40 years for a non-violent crime seems excessive.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-plans-clemency-for-hundreds-of-drug-offenders--162714911.html

does this woman really need 30 years for example?

I mean look at the cost to the tax payers. 30 years X $25000 or a so a year is $750000 bucks. Surely we could educate and train someone to be reintegrated to society for less
Apr 24, 2014 8:19am
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Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Apr 24, 2014 8:53 AM
There needs to be a middle ground. Non-violent offenders don't have to be in prison, but they can be under house arrest and be able to go to school, work and church (or whatever religion) and actually be productive.
Apr 24, 2014 8:53am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 24, 2014 9:23 AM
ccrunner609;1608496 wrote:i love how all of you condone letting drug dealers out of prison. What you ignore you condone. You will ignore these POS and condone letting them out until you or someone in your family is a victim of one of their FUTURE crimes and then you will bitch about why they are out.
Decriminalize all drugs and take the power/money away from the cartels/gangs. End the drug war and take the drug market "above ground" and watch drug related violence drop.

Prohibition does not work. Look at the 18th amendment for proof.
Apr 24, 2014 9:23am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 24, 2014 9:27 AM
Gblock;1608575 wrote:i just laugh at the those that are so self-righteous. con alma you werent self taught. all this wisdom you have you didnt just pick up a book at 6 years old and learn all this wisdom that you have. someone taught it to you. many people dont have that opportunity. giving someone 40 years for a non-violent crime seems excessive.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-plans-clemency-for-hundreds-of-drug-offenders--162714911.html

does this woman really need 30 years for example?

I mean look at the cost to the tax payers. 30 years X $25000 or a so a year is $750000 bucks. Surely we could educate and train someone to be reintegrated to society for less
???

What the heck? I haven't suggested 40 years is appropriate. I have stated that in order to eliminate the concerns of disparity of sentencing I would rather see all people sentenced to the max that similar crimes have been sentenced to.

I have acknowledged that opportunities aren't equal with every individual in our world.

I have also stated that if sentences are not appropriate and are excessive we should change them but until such time I would like to see judges be equal in application to eliminate disparity.

We should not sentence based on the costs to tax payers. It's a punishment. We will realize expenses as a society ti enforce the decisions we have mad with respect to laws.
Apr 24, 2014 9:27am
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isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 24, 2014 9:29 AM
Con_Alma;1608295 wrote:Great. Maybe someday the range provided to a judge of lesser sentences will be in place. That day isn't today and nothing I proposed would violate the amendments that you stated. The initial problem posed was disparity in sentences. That disparity is eliminated with all convictions being sentenced at the maximum afforded by law.
gosh a ruddies lets take an injustice and add to it. It does not eliminate the suffering of those oversentenced and then worsens the situation by adding to the overcrowding in the prisons.
Apr 24, 2014 9:29am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 24, 2014 9:31 AM
justincredible;1608599 wrote:Decriminalize all drugs and take the power/money away from the cartels/gangs. End the drug war and take the drug market "above ground" and watch drug related violence drop.

Prohibition does not work. Look at the 18th amendment for proof.
If society wants certain drugs as part of it then it will act through representation to decriminalise them. I think we are seeing momentum in this direction with certain drugs but it will takes the masses to pressure representatives to make that happen. That may occur some day but it's not today.

When you say prohibition does not work it really depends on what you deem as "work"ing. I see penalizing those whom have chosen to break the desired laws society has put in place as working.
Apr 24, 2014 9:31am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 24, 2014 9:32 AM
isadore;1608606 wrote:gosh a ruddies lets take an injustice and add to it. It does not eliminate the suffering of those oversentenced and then worsens the situation by adding to the overcrowding in the prisons.
It's not an "oversentence" according to the law. It may be according to your opinion. Work to get the law changed.

It eliminates the injustice of disparity of sentences and doesn't violate the Constitutional Amendments like you previously stated.
Apr 24, 2014 9:32am