MARCH MADNESS 2014 - NCAA Tourney Thread

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reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

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Mar 30, 2014 11:06 PM
Tom Izzo is not a top ten all-time coach. Until he proves he can replicate the one title he won 15 years ago, he's not in that historical discussion with Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Allen, Iba, K, Smith, Calhoun, Roy, Pitino and, at this point, even Donovan. Winning the first one is easy. It's doing it again that's hard.
Mar 30, 2014 11:06pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

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Mar 30, 2014 11:12 PM
sleeper;1598934 wrote:Izzo will leave WHEN he wins his second title. I think Izzo is bound to get another one before he's done.
I like Izzo, but at the pace he's going right now, he's NOT going to. There are multiple coaches who are consistently beating him on the recruiting trail AND in March Madness when it counts.

He gets a ton of credit for his great years, but 9 losses with this team and not beating a 7-seed to reach the FF is one he can be criticized a little for.

The B1G has become wide open, both Matta and Beilein are right there (or past) in recruiting with Izzo and it's hard to say Bo Ryan isn't the best at getting what he can from who he gets in the conference. Across the nation, I wouldn't put Izzo ahead of at least a 5 or 6 other coaches in-terms of getting talent. That makes it awfully difficult to overcome when push comes to shove and it's a one-and-done format.
Mar 30, 2014 11:12pm
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

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Mar 30, 2014 11:16 PM
reclegend22;1598917 wrote:Yeah, Creighton would've been awesome at the Final Four. I also would've greatly enjoyed watching Duke lol.

The Final Four we got has the potential to be great. In a Final Four of rematches, Wisconsin vs. Florida is the one I most want to see. A win over the Gators would cement Bo Ryan's legacy as architect of one of the all-time great tournament runs, beating Arizona, Kentucky and Florida along the way to his first national title. That's a brutal stretch when you also factor in pretty good second and third round opponents in Oregon and Baylor.
Ha they lost by 30 to Baylor. I think not
Mar 30, 2014 11:16pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

8,772 posts
Mar 30, 2014 11:16 PM
Even amongst the one-time national champions in college basketball history, I'm not sure Izzo is the best. I'd place Jerry Tarkanian, John Thompson and Lute Olson all ahead of Izzo. And Bill Self is already right there (I believe Self will win another title in the next five or so years and remove himself from this list anyway. Izzo, at almost 60, I'm a lot less confident about).
Mar 30, 2014 11:16pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

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Mar 30, 2014 11:19 PM
Classyposter58;1598941 wrote:Ha they lost by 30 to Baylor. I think not
They ran into a hot-shooting buzz saw. I think that was more of a fluke game than anything on top of a difficult matchup. Not sure what in the hell happened, to be quite honest. Regardless, I love watching Doug McDermott so it would've been awesome.
Mar 30, 2014 11:19pm
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Mulva

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Mar 30, 2014 11:50 PM
reclegend22;1598943 wrote:Not sure what in the hell happened, to be quite honest.
The simple answer is they weren't very good.
Mar 30, 2014 11:50pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

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Mar 31, 2014 12:05 AM
Mulva;1598946 wrote:The simple answer is they weren't very good.
On the flip side, Creighton beat a decent Arizona State team -- at least a competitive one -- by almost 30. So Creighton was much better than the result of the Baylor game indicates. It was just a horrible night for the Blue Jays.

While they weren't the Final Four contender I originally thought, they weren't a bad team. They were a good, not great, team.
Mar 31, 2014 12:05am
K

KB0938

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900 posts
Mar 31, 2014 12:05 AM
Rec Legend flat out hates Izzo, lol jesus its been like 10 pages of you blasting him.

And I dont hink Donnovan is a better coach than Izzo, he had an amazing class that decided to return and he won 2 titles, titles shoudlnt be the end all for who the best coaches are. Especially in this one and done format where one player getting hot or going cold can end your tournament hopes. Itd be different if it were a series where there were off days and time to change game plans and the best team more times than not comes out on top. In this 1 and done format its whoever was the hot team that day. Just my opinon


Edit, and like Azu pointed out, hes had quite a few failures and disappointments in the tournament after his great class got him those titles
Mar 31, 2014 12:05am
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

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Mar 31, 2014 12:17 AM
I can't agree with you at all Rec. Izzo is incredible, 7 B1G titles since 1998 is ridiculous and has more Final Four trips than any coach in B1G history. MSU wasn't exactly a juggernaut when he was hired either, I think they only made 11 NCAA's ever before he got there
Mar 31, 2014 12:17am
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

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Mar 31, 2014 12:20 AM
I don't hate Izzo. I just don't think an argument can be made for him as a top ten all-time coach. As of right now, there are simply too many more accomplished coaches in the history of the game. As far as that next tier of coaches goes -- Tarkanian, Thompson, Olson, Self, Boeheim -- Izzo is obviously right there. I personally wouldn't put him above a couple of those guys, but I can't really find much fault in anyone that does.

While titles are not the end all argument, they obviously do play a large part in determining the legacy of a coach. It's why guys like John Chaney and Gene Keady and Louie Carnesecca, tremendous coaches in their own right, are never discussed in GOAT debates. As for Donovan winning all of his championships with one class, so did Izzo, right?

He's one of the five best today. No argument there. But he needs to prove more to be in that all-time discussion IMO.
Mar 31, 2014 12:20am
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

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Mar 31, 2014 12:24 AM
Classyposter58;1598953 wrote:I can't agree with you at all Rec. Izzo is incredible, 7 B1G titles since 1998 is ridiculous and has more Final Four trips than any coach in B1G history. MSU wasn't exactly a juggernaut when he was hired either, I think they only made 11 NCAA's ever before he got there
I agree with everything you just said. Lol.

What exactly don't you agree with me on? If it's the top ten all-time coach thing, that's obviously your right if you believe that Izzo has had a better career than than any of Wooden, Rupp, Allen, Iba, Knight, Smith, K, Calhoun, Roy or Pitino, but I just don't see it.
Mar 31, 2014 12:24am
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

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Mar 31, 2014 12:27 AM
reclegend22;1598956 wrote:I agree with everything you just said. Lol.

What exactly don't you agree with me on? If it's the top ten all-time coach thing, that's obviously your right if you believe that Izzo has had a better career than than any of Wooden, Rupp, Allen, Iba, Knight, Smith, K, Calhoun, Roy or Pitino, but I just don't see it.
He's in the discussion but I think a few more Final Fours and he is there regardless of title
Mar 31, 2014 12:27am
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

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15,933 posts
Mar 31, 2014 6:37 AM
That's the problem. Right now, if I'm picking which elite coaches are going to continue their run, give me Self, Donovan, Calipari without a doubt. Then you have an upcoming crop with Beilein, Miller and a few others that are starting to out-shine Izzo. Like I said, his recruiting is NOT that great over the last 5 years.
Mar 31, 2014 6:37am
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Mar 31, 2014 7:48 AM
Classyposter58;1598953 wrote:7 B1G titles since 1998 is ridiculous and has more Final Four trips than any coach in B1G history.
Self has 10 since 2004. More final four trips yet only has 1 title?
Mar 31, 2014 7:48am
P

Prescott

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2,569 posts
Mar 31, 2014 7:52 AM
Where is Jim Calhoun in this discussion? He only won 3 National Championships and built the UCONN program.
Mar 31, 2014 7:52am
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

In ROY I Trust!!

27,794 posts
Mar 31, 2014 8:03 AM
SportsAndLady;1598980 wrote:Self has 10 since 2004. More final four trips yet only has 1 title?
Yeah 7 in 15 years is not ridiculous.
Mar 31, 2014 8:03am
P

Prescott

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Mar 31, 2014 8:48 AM
Azubuike24;1598972 wrote:That's the problem. Right now, if I'm picking which elite coaches are going to continue their run, give me Self, Donovan, Calipari without a doubt. Then you have an upcoming crop with Beilein, Miller and a few others that are starting to out-shine Izzo. Like I said, his recruiting is NOT that great over the last 5 years.
I am sure you know more about recruiting than I do. When has Izzo recruited a top 10 class? Where did the 2012 class rank?(Harris, Valentine, Costello,Kaminski)
Mar 31, 2014 8:48am
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

Cool Hand Luke

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Mar 31, 2014 9:30 AM
Prescott;1598982 wrote:Where is Jim Calhoun in this discussion? He only won 3 National Championships and built the UCONN program.
He's in the top ten list of greatest coaches of all time, at least mine. See my list above.
Mar 31, 2014 9:30am
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

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Mar 31, 2014 9:48 AM
SportsAndLady;1598980 wrote:Self has 10 since 2004. More final four trips yet only has 1 title?
I mean it's also the Big 12 though
Mar 31, 2014 9:48am
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Mar 31, 2014 9:59 AM
Classyposter58;1599025 wrote:I mean it's also the Big 12 though
Yeah because the big ten has just been dominating over the last decade and a half. Right.

You're so full of derp I can't even fathom it.
Mar 31, 2014 9:59am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Mar 31, 2014 10:00 AM
reclegend22;1598936 wrote:Tom Izzo is not a top ten all-time coach. Until he proves he can replicate the one title he won 15 years ago, he's not in that historical discussion with Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Allen, Iba, K, Smith, Calhoun, Roy, Pitino and, at this point, even Donovan. Winning the first one is easy. It's doing it again that's hard.
Lehigh. Mercer. Coach K's legacy. LOL
Mar 31, 2014 10:00am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Mar 31, 2014 10:02 AM
Azubuike24;1598940 wrote:I like Izzo, but at the pace he's going right now, he's NOT going to. There are multiple coaches who are consistently beating him on the recruiting trail AND in March Madness when it counts.

He gets a ton of credit for his great years, but 9 losses with this team and not beating a 7-seed to reach the FF is one he can be criticized a little for.

The B1G has become wide open, both Matta and Beilein are right there (or past) in recruiting with Izzo and it's hard to say Bo Ryan isn't the best at getting what he can from who he gets in the conference. Across the nation, I wouldn't put Izzo ahead of at least a 5 or 6 other coaches in-terms of getting talent. That makes it awfully difficult to overcome when push comes to shove and it's a one-and-done format.
He's never lost to a 15 or a 14 seed in the tournament.
Mar 31, 2014 10:02am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Mar 31, 2014 10:05 AM
Prescott;1598982 wrote:Where is Jim Calhoun in this discussion? He only won 3 National Championships and built the UCONN program.
He's in my top ten all-time coaches too. I have coach K at 11 though since he lost to Mercer and Lehigh in the tournament; you know where it counts.
Mar 31, 2014 10:05am