Foxy Knoxy found guilty...maybe

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T

thavoice

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14,376 posts
Jan 30, 2014 4:16 PM
Yeah, she is kinda hot.

Pretty messed up situation it seems with the amount of trials etc.

Havent followed it enough to have an opinion if she was guilty or not.
Jan 30, 2014 4:16pm
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Rotinaj

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Jan 30, 2014 4:58 PM
Found not guilty once. Italy can GFI.
Jan 30, 2014 4:58pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 5:42 PM
I said this a year ago


It is unlikely that Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. He believes that if Italy were to ask for extradition, U.S. officials would deny the request.
Jan 30, 2014 5:42pm
G

gut

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Jan 30, 2014 5:52 PM
Legal experts are pretty mixed on it. Technically, she was convicted. Their appeals process is different - she won her appeal, but that is not the conclusion of the appellate process so she technically, in US terms, has never been acquitted and there's no double jeopardy. Further, the reversal was based on technicalities of the lower court, and in the US an acquittal on technical grounds can still be re-tried without double jeopardy attaching.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/29/knox-trial-nears-3rd-verdict/5019183/
"Dershowitz believes double jeopardy would not be an issue because Knox's acquittal was not a final judgment. He also doubts that the United States would want to set a precedent by refusing to extradite her if she is convicted, given that the United States makes frequent extradition requests for defendants sought by U.S. courts."

More from Alan Dershowitz from a WSJ article:
Ms. Knox would likely challenge any extradition request on the ground that she was already acquitted by the lower appellate court, so any subsequent conviction would constitute double jeopardy.

That is when the real legal complexities would kick in, because Italian and American law are quite different and both will be applicable in this transnational case involving a citizen of one country charged with killing a citizen of another country in yet a third country.

America's extradition treaty with Italy prohibits the U.S. from extraditing someone who has been "acquitted," which under American law generally means acquitted by a jury at trial. But Ms. Knox was acquitted by an appeals court after having been found guilty at trial. So would her circumstance constitute double jeopardy under American law?

That is uncertain because appellate courts in the U.S. don't retry cases and render acquittals (they judge whether lower courts made mistakes of law, not fact). Ms. Knox's own Italian lawyer has acknowledged that her appellate "acquittal" wouldn't constitute double jeopardy under Italian law since it wasn't a final judgment—it was subject to further appeal, which has now resulted in a reversal of the acquittal. This argument will probably carry considerable weight with U.S. authorities, likely yielding the conclusion that her extradition wouldn't violate the treaty. Still, a sympathetic U.S. State Department or judge might find that her appellate acquittal was final enough to preclude extradition on double-jeopardy grounds.
Jan 30, 2014 5:52pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 7:43 PM
She has been acquitted per US standards as a jury overturned the conviction based on lack of evidence, not on a technicality. The panel of judges then decided that they didn't like that verdict, so they ordered a retrial, which would have never happened here. The state dept is not going to extradite her and will honor the acquittal.
Jan 30, 2014 7:43pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 7:44 PM
Also the US set the precedent to not extradite us citizens to Italy year's ago when that jet killed 10 people on a ski lift
Jan 30, 2014 7:44pm
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Mohican00

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Jan 30, 2014 7:58 PM
LJ;1574514 wrote:Also the US set the precedent to not extradite us citizens to Italy year's ago when that jet killed 10 people on a ski lift
what?
Jan 30, 2014 7:58pm
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said_aouita

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Jan 30, 2014 8:03 PM
Italians are retarded.
Jan 30, 2014 8:03pm
G

gut

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Jan 30, 2014 8:04 PM
LJ;1574513 wrote:She has been acquitted per US standards as a jury overturned the conviction based on lack of evidence, not on a technicality. The panel of judges then decided that they didn't like that verdict, so they ordered a retrial, which would have never happened here. The state dept is not going to extradite her and will honor the acquittal.
I'm going to trust the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, and her own lawyer, over yours.

You can't say she was convicted according to US standards because the Italian court system is entirely different - apples to oranges to say she was acquitted on appeal because, in fact, that appelate process had not run its course. To this point, she has been convicted according to both US and Italian law.

The technicality or whatever you want to call it, was evidence improperly omitted in her appeal.

There are other issues that arise, as well, but I don't pretend to be a lawyer. What I've read is a defendant winning acquittal on appeal can be tried again under the assumption the defendant waived his objection to further prosecution by contesting the original verdict. You can also be retried on appellate reversals due to evidentiary insufficiency.

Point being, double jeopardy in the US is not absolute and only an extradition ruling seeking political cover would use that.
Jan 30, 2014 8:04pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 8:08 PM
Mohican00;1574519 wrote:what?
A US jet cut the cable on a ski lift in Italy and killed a number of people. Italy was trying to get extradition for the pilots and the u.s. argued that it was their right to handle it and won. They then acquitted the pilots. The pilots were then found guilty of obstruction when it was found that they destroyed the on board recorder.
Jan 30, 2014 8:08pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 8:10 PM
gut;1574521 wrote:I'm going to trust the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, and her own lawyer, over yours.

You can't say she was convicted according to US standards because the Italian court system is entirely different - apples to oranges to say she was acquitted on appeal because, in fact, that appelate process had not run its course. To this point, she has been convicted according to both US and Italian law.
And I'll trust the opinions of the numerous other lawyers in this country and others that are saying what I am
Jan 30, 2014 8:10pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 8:12 PM
gut;1574521 wrote:I'm going to trust the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, and her own lawyer, over yours.

You can't say she was convicted according to US standards because the Italian court system is entirely different - apples to oranges to say she was acquitted on appeal because, in fact, that appelate process had not run its course. To this point, she has been convicted according to both US and Italian law.
Not to mention Dershowitz says it's uncertain and her lawyer says" under Italian law". The US will base it off US standards. Bottom line
Jan 30, 2014 8:12pm
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LJ

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Jan 30, 2014 8:21 PM
I'll revisit when the u.s. declines extradition.
Jan 30, 2014 8:21pm
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gut

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Jan 30, 2014 8:37 PM
But she was never acquitted - the process was not finalized, so you cannot say she was acquitted AFTER being convicted. Also, it seems the extradition law may not apply here. Part of the extraditon treaty is we generally accept their legal system, so you can't very well interpolate an acquittal that, according to their system, didn't happen.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-likely-extradite-knox-italy-asks-000547631.html
"As popular as she is here and as pretty as she is here -- because that's what this is all about, if she was not an attractive woman we wouldn't have the group love-in -- she will be extradited if it's upheld," said Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.
While Knox has won a great deal of support in the United States where she is seen as the innocent victim of a miscarriage of justice, Dershowitz said there are no legal grounds for preventing extradition.


Knox's supporters argue she should be protected from extradition because the Italian system -- which allows prosecutors to appeal a verdict -- violates the US legal prohibition on double jeopardy: trying someone twice for the same crime.
Legal experts attach little weight to this argument.

"They always forget she was convicted first," said Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/amanda-knox-could-be-sent-back-to-italy-after-guilty-verdict/
After initially stating that Knox would most likely not be extradited, the U.S. State Department have done an about face and revealed that if Italy request an extradition of Amanda that they will most likely comply. Politically speaking, it would make sense. The U.S. asks for more extraditions than any other country in the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10607883/What-next-for-Amanda-Knox.html

Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. “This is not applicable in this situation,” said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.
For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce “a brief statement of the facts of the case,” as well as the text of the laws governing the crime committed, the punishment it would receive, and its statute of limitations.
Her conviction would “easily satisfy the conditions of the treaty,” said Prof Ku. “So it would be hard for the US to explain why she should not be handed over”.
Jan 30, 2014 8:37pm
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Glory Days

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Jan 31, 2014 12:55 AM
LJ;1574514 wrote:Also the US set the precedent to not extradite us citizens to Italy year's ago when that jet killed 10 people on a ski lift
Eh, those were marines, not regular citizens. military personnel overseas tend to be treated differently, so that scenario might not compare to this one.
Jan 31, 2014 12:55am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Jan 31, 2014 6:08 AM
Italy is completely embarrassing itself.
Jan 31, 2014 6:08am
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HitsRus

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Jan 31, 2014 7:12 AM
In regards to 'double jeopardy'...alleged Nazi death camp guard John Demjanyuk was extradited to Germany for another round of trials, even after being freed by an Israeli court.
Jan 31, 2014 7:12am
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LJ

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Jan 31, 2014 7:52 AM
HitsRus;1574627 wrote:In regards to 'double jeopardy'...alleged Nazi death camp guard John Demjanyuk was extradited to Germany for another round of trials, even after being freed by an Israeli court.

Not entirely true. His citizenship was revoked and he was deported. Germany only started proceedings after his US citizenship was revoked.
Jan 31, 2014 7:52am
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HitsRus

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Jan 31, 2014 1:16 PM
...and his citizenship was revoked for????....something he was acquitted for?
Jan 31, 2014 1:16pm
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LJ

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Jan 31, 2014 1:19 PM
HitsRus;1574804 wrote:...and his citizenship was revoked for????....something he was acquitted for?
Using falsified documents to obtain citizenship
Jan 31, 2014 1:19pm
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Heretic

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Jan 31, 2014 1:21 PM
All this talk about legality and bullshit aside, just let them extradite her...to my C0CK!

Okay, you can go back to arguing that mumbo-jumbo voodoo stuff again.
Jan 31, 2014 1:21pm
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LJ

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Jan 31, 2014 1:26 PM
LJ;1574810 wrote:Using falsified documents to obtain citizenship
Not to mention new allegations about participating in 3 other death camps.
Jan 31, 2014 1:26pm
T

Tiernan

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13,021 posts
Feb 1, 2014 1:06 PM
She's guilty as hell but got away with it. Fucka de Italianos.
Feb 1, 2014 1:06pm