the rich get richer

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isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:07 AM
programs are not as effective as they should be
they help some but not many others
a new system should be established to help all
then the old programs can be repealed.
Feb 17, 2014 8:07am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:09 AM
Were you mistaken when saying "if"?

I agree that ineffective programs should be eliminated.
Feb 17, 2014 8:09am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:23 AM
Con_Alma;1581530 wrote:Were you mistaken when saying "if"?

I agree that ineffective programs should be eliminated.
if you have read the thread, you are aware that people bring up examples of some folks helped by programs, and then I bring irrefutable proof that many are not. Eliminating those programs first would hurt some folks now. So first set up the new system then abolish the others or do it simultaneously if possible. And that is not a change in what I have been saying.
Feb 17, 2014 8:23am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:26 AM
isadore;1581535 wrote:if you have read the thread, you are aware that people bring up examples of some folks helped by programs, and then I bring irrefutable proof that many are not. Eliminating those programs first would hurt some folks now. So first set up the new system then abolish the others or do it simultaneously if possible. And that is not a change in what I have been saying.

I have read the thread. It's the going back and forth between declarative statements with certainty and those expressing uncertainty with the same point in mind that lends to the question I asked. Either you were mistaken or you aren't sure.

Either way I would support eliminating programs that aren't effective.
Feb 17, 2014 8:26am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 9:05 AM
programs that have no positive effect should be eliminated
Feb 17, 2014 9:05am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 9:27 AM
We sure seem to have a lot of those.
Feb 17, 2014 9:27am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 9:37 AM
free post secondary education, single payer health plan, guaranteed income would allow us to eliminate some of the ineffective programs.
Feb 17, 2014 9:37am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 17, 2014 11:09 AM
isadore;1581563 wrote:free post secondary education, single payer health plan, guaranteed income would allow us to eliminate some of the ineffective programs.
For one those 3 ideas would drive our economy into the ground with government spending, and 2, a "guaranteed income" already exists with welfare does it not? What we don't have currently is a "guaranteed job" meaning people on welfare are not forced to work at all, even for the 'public' for that money.
Feb 17, 2014 11:09am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 11:14 AM
isadore;1581563 wrote:free post secondary education, single payer health plan, guaranteed income would allow us to eliminate some of the ineffective programs.

Eliminating some of the ineffective programs shouldn't be the goal. Adding more unproven programs before eliminating ineffective programs is just poor leadership.
Feb 17, 2014 11:14am
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

9,716 posts
Feb 17, 2014 11:33 AM
isadore;1581517 wrote:we have people in full time
jobs that do not pay enough to get them out of poverty.
Instead of blaming the rich why not look at why the poor are poor?
What are the poor doing to make themselves poor, (poor are poor because they want to be poor) what are the poor not doing that millions of others have not done that bring them up to a standard of living to advance in society?
Blame Blame Blame .... everyone, everything, someone else and all that is wrong .... you're of your own making, who you are, what you have become is of your creation so blame yourself for all that you are not...
Feb 17, 2014 11:33am
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BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 17, 2014 11:48 AM
Belly35;1581614 wrote:Instead of blaming the rich why not look at why the poor are poor?
What are the poor doing to make themselves poor, (poor are poor because they want to be poor) what are the poor not doing that millions of others have not done that bring them up to a standard of living to advance in society?
Blame Blame Blame .... everyone, everything, someone else and all that is wrong .... you're of your own making, who you are, what you have become is of your creation so blame yourself for all that you are not...

^^^Declares the man who has made it known to this board how much he has benefited from socialist programs here in Merika!

Welfare, Public Housing, Food Assistance, Job Guarantee in Southeast Asia, Socialist VA medical Care, Socialist Degree from Socialist Publicly Administered BGSU, socialist monetary policy that maintains demand for his business and stabilizes the value of the currency all of his business contracts are denominated in!

Etc. Etc.
Feb 17, 2014 11:48am
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BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 17, 2014 12:46 PM
jmog;1581604 wrote:For one those 3 ideas would drive our economy into the ground with government spending, and 2, a "guaranteed income" already exists with welfare does it not? What we don't have currently is a "guaranteed job" meaning people on welfare are not forced to work at all, even for the 'public' for that money.
D1rTy L1bRuL Post-Keynesian Economists have advocated guaranteed employment over social insurance since at least Hyman Minsky if not just Keynes himself.

"Ending Poverty: Jobs, Not Welfare"

http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Poverty-Jobs-Not-Welfare/dp/1936192314
Feb 17, 2014 12:46pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:10 PM
jmog;1581604 wrote:For one those 3 ideas would drive our economy into the ground with government spending, and 2, a "guaranteed income" already exists with welfare does it not? What we don't have currently is a "guaranteed job" meaning people on welfare are not forced to work at all, even for the 'public' for that money.
three ideas that would make this nation a truly decent place to live and the land of opportunity. The income is much too minimal for families.
Feb 17, 2014 2:10pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:10 PM
Con_Alma;1581606 wrote:Eliminating some of the ineffective programs shouldn't be the goal. Adding more unproven programs before eliminating ineffective programs is just poor leadership.
They are not unproven they have worked in other nations to give better quality of life.
Feb 17, 2014 2:10pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:15 PM
isadore;1581666 wrote:They are not unproven they have worked in other nations to give better quality of life.
I'll expand for you.

They are unproven in the US with our culture, ideology, economy and approach.
Feb 17, 2014 2:15pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:15 PM
Belly35;1581614 wrote:Instead of blaming the rich why not look at why the poor are poor?
What are the poor doing to make themselves poor, (poor are poor because they want to be poor) what are the poor not doing that millions of others have not done that bring them up to a standard of living to advance in society?
Blame Blame Blame .... everyone, everything, someone else and all that is wrong .... you're of your own making, who you are, what you have become is of your creation so blame yourself for all that you are not...
"
"Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its 'one percent,' namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the 'rich,'" he wrote, opening a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal.

"This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent 'progressive' radicalism unthinkable now?" he concluded. "
http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/26/investing/tom-perkins-nazi-kristallnacht/
Oh the poor, poor rich, they suffer so much in our society. 30 plus years of government kowtowing to them, and they still whine.
Feb 17, 2014 2:15pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:17 PM
Con_Alma;1581670 wrote:I'll expand for you.

They are unproven in the US with our culture, ideology, economy and approach.
please continue to expand for me.
Feb 17, 2014 2:17pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 2:18 PM
isadore;1581673 wrote:please continue to expand for me.

They are unproven in the US.

In addition, you continue to espouse after shooting your mouth off about registering at an institution which is willing to pay for up to all of a graduates loans if they are unable to be employed at predetermined levels without the willingness to do so. Lol.
Feb 17, 2014 2:18pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Feb 17, 2014 6:26 PM
Gotta borrow this from the memes thread:

Feb 17, 2014 6:26pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 6:50 PM
Con_Alma;1581670 wrote:I'll expand for you.

They are unproven in the US with our culture, ideology, economy and approach.
They have been used in developed, technological advanced, democratic nations with mixed economies. Some have been tried in Canada which is more similar to us than any other nation. But some will always find an excuse not to better the lives and opportunities of our citizens.
Feb 17, 2014 6:50pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 6:59 PM
isadore;1581764 wrote:They have been used in developed, technological advanced, democratic nations with mixed economies. Some have been tried in Canada which is more similar to us than any other nation. But some will always find an excuse not to better the lives and opportunities of our citizens.
None of this diminishes the accuracy of what I posted.
Feb 17, 2014 6:59pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:29 PM
Con_Alma;1581769 wrote:None of this diminishes the accuracy of what I posted.
All that does is prevent any hope of progress in improving the education, opportunity and health of the American people.
Feb 17, 2014 8:29pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 17, 2014 8:33 PM
isadore;1581799 wrote:All that does is prevent any hope of progress in improving the education, opportunity and health of the American people.

All what does?

You copied my post "None of this diminishes the accuracy of what I posted.".

...so not diminishing the accuracy of my post prevents any hope of progress??


???? That doesn't make any sense.

I have simply stated such ideas you have offered are unproven in the US. Not diminishing the accuracy of that diminishes hope???

If that's the case your hope is very weak.
Feb 17, 2014 8:33pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Feb 17, 2014 9:10 PM
Con_Alma;1581800 wrote:All what does?

You copied my post "None of this diminishes the accuracy of what I posted.".

...so not diminishing the accuracy of my post prevents any hope of progress??


???? That doesn't make any sense.

I have simply stated such ideas you have offered are unproven in the US. Not diminishing the accuracy of that diminishes hope???

If that's the case your hope is very weak.
your statement was just an attempt to provide an excuse for not acting to benefit our society. It is the kind of excuse that has been used to frustrate progress through out American History.
Feb 17, 2014 9:10pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 18, 2014 5:20 AM
????

I don't need an excuse. If it's my opinion to not act to benefit our society I will simple say so...and have. Such an example is my lack of support for paying for free secondary education for all.

It wasn't an excuse.

The additional steps and programs you have mentioned are unproven in the US and nothing you have shared has reduced the accuracy of my comment.
Feb 18, 2014 5:20am