cops kill son. Big debate on a local Facebook page as to whether this was justified or not. I contend it was. What you say?

[video=youtube;4Y5zhmlWc-o][/video]

Here's an article on the story.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dad-son-shot-dead-police-chase-angry-cigarettes-article-1.1510729

Not justified. The cops escalated the situation by continuing to pursue after being told to back off.

In my head I was thinking George Bluth, Sr. saying "And that's why you don't teach your son a lesson."

This is an awful situation. From what we hear it seems that cops getting involved in high speed pursuits usually end in unnecessary violence. I'm curious if there are any kind of statistics regarding safe apprehension vs. injury/death when there is a high speed pursuit.

I can understand them being necessary when it's a terrible criminal that is killing or recently killed or something like that. But for certain crimes it just seems unnecessary.

Didn't read the article. Watched the video. Don't run from police when you stole your dad's truck. Justified, he was trying to ram them, who knows what else he would have done.

Fly4Fun;1532295 wrote:In my head I was thinking George Bluth, Sr. saying "And that's why you don't teach your son a lesson."

This is an awful situation. From what we hear it seems that cops getting involved in high speed pursuits usually end in unnecessary violence. I'm curious if there are any kind of statistics regarding safe apprehension vs. injury/death when there is a high speed pursuit.

I can understand them being necessary when it's a terrible criminal that is killing or recently killed or something like that. But for certain crimes it just seems unnecessary.

So if it's not a murder or rape you should be able to just run from the cops?

iclfan2;1532303 wrote:Didn't read the article. Watched the video. Don't run from police when you stole your dad's truck. Justified, he was trying to ram them, who knows what else he would have done.

Not to mention he was on a college campus with students walking around. I think it's easy to say they could have tried more to stop the vehicle, but that may have been the only opp to take care of the danger. He obviously had no regard for life at that point. Did you see him blow the stoplight?

WebFire;1532304 wrote:So if it's not a murder or rape you should be able to just run from the cops?

Did I say that?

Generally we only hear about it when it ends in tragedy. I'm curious if anyone knows (such as Glordy Days) what kind of statistics for high speed pursuits end in safe apprehension vs. loss of life.

I'm not claiming to have the necessary information to determine what the policy should be, but i would have to imagine some place is keeping track of the data and the police policies should be adjusted accordingly (or not adjusted at all if the statistics bare that out).

Fly4Fun;1532308 wrote:Did I say that?

I thought so.

I can understand them being necessary when it's a terrible criminal that is killing or recently killed or something like that. But for certain crimes it just seems unnecessary.

Fly4Fun;1532308 wrote:Generally we only hear about it when it ends in tragedy. I'm curious if anyone knows (such as Glordy Days) what kind of statistics for high speed pursuits end in safe apprehension vs. loss of life.

I'm not claiming to have the necessary information to determine what the policy should be, but i would have to imagine some place is keeping track of the data and the police policies should be adjusted accordingly (or not adjusted at all if the statistics bare that out).

I would be interested in any data as well.

In my experience if you don't ram cop cars with your truck the odds of getting shot go down significantly.

Imagine that. Another fat ass cop.

It's pathetic the police union doesn't have height/weight limits similar to the military.

Justified. The end result was tragic and unfortunate, but this kid pushed the envelope too far. Stop. The. Fucking. Truck.

said_aouita;1532331 wrote:Imagine that. Another fat ass cop.

It's pathetic the police union doesn't have height/weight limits similar to the military.

SMH. Police Unions don't have the authority to set height/weight policy.



Probably the best source to review professional research on pursuit policy/procedure (and almost any other topic) is the International Association of Chief's of Police website.


BTW, Here is LAPD's pursuit policy....http://www.pursuitwatch.org/stories/LAPD.htm

justincredible;1532284 wrote:Not justified. The cops escalated the situation by continuing to pursue after being told to back off.

Kind of agree. Chase went on for almost 2 minutes after they were told to back off. Granted, kid definitely shouldn't have been running, and the cops actions were justified when he was ramming them, but they shouldn't have been there in the first place. The cop was told to back away, and he didn't follow orders.

justincredible;1532284 wrote:Not justified. The cops escalated the situation by continuing to pursue after being told to back off.

GoChiefs;1532359 wrote:Kind of agree. Chase went on for almost 2 minutes after they were told to back off. Granted, kid definitely shouldn't have been running, and the cops actions were justified when he was ramming them, but they shouldn't have been there in the first place. The cop was told to back away, and he didn't follow orders.

The suspect escalated the chase the second he didn't stop...

When I first heard the boss say "we could probably back it off" was about a second or two before the truck rammed into the front of the cop car. I guess the kid didn't get the memo to back it off also? When the boss asked about containment of the vehicle, the cop was out of his car shouting commands at the driver. either way, there was no containment. It also appears there was more than one agency involved, so it looks like the campus cops continued following the truck through the field.

you can clearly hear the door ajar tone for 3 seconds before the truck rammed into the cop car. this means the cop was out of his vehicle and the truck is at that point, a deadly weapon.

legally justified yes, but as I have seen before, the judge will still award the family money saying something like the first shot was justified, but the second shot wasn't.

If the cops backed off and he kept on driving and managed to hit/kill someone, then the outrage would be "Well why didn't the cops do more??!!" Cops aren't perfect, but sometimes it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't job. They only have a few moments to think/react and their actions or inactions can be devastating for a lot of people. There's a million reasons not to do something like the driver did, but on the top of the list, there has to be the thinking of "Who knows what the cops might be forced into doing?"

Also, around 3:10-3:15, you can see the cop pointing the gun at him. Who knows if the driver actually saw him, but if so at that point he'd probably think "Oh shit, they're prepared to fire, maybe I should stop unless I want to continue risking my life for this."

Glory Days;1532386 wrote:The suspect escalated the chase the second he didn't stop...

When I first heard the boss say "we could probably back it off" was about a second or two before the truck rammed into the front of the cop car. I guess the kid didn't get the memo to back it off also? When the boss asked about containment of the vehicle, the cop was out of his car shouting commands at the driver. either way, there was no containment. It also appears there was more than one agency involved, so it looks like the campus cops continued following the truck through the field.

you can clearly hear the door ajar tone for 3 seconds before the truck rammed into the cop car. this means the cop was out of his vehicle and the truck is at that point, a deadly weapon.

legally justified yes, but as I have seen before, the judge will still award the family money saying something like the first shot was justified, but the second shot wasn't.

Except you missed the part at 1:50 in the video where they said to back it off. That's way before the moment you're talking about.

Not justifying the kid here at all, and I'm not outraged about what the cops did.

Dispatchers don't have the authority to tell a cop to back off. The cops are in the situation, and they assess the danger and proceed as they see fit. I think it is justified, because if the cops just let him go, he puts the lives of innocent people in danger. He had the opportunity to give up and have it end peacefully.

Dont run from the cops, ram cop cars, and drive like a maniac slinging landscaping equip and a trailer everywhere, and you won't get shot.

I bet the father feels awful.

Don't run from the cops and you decrease your chances of getting shot significantly. Seemed like the kid was going down the right path in life (sarcasm).

Lesson learned. One less POS to worry about.

Pick6;1532484 wrote:Seemed like the kid was going down the right path in life (sarcasm).

One article did say he was trying to turn his life around. He was a high school dropout who was working on his GED.

But, I agree...probably shouldn't be running from the cops.

OSH;1532487 wrote:One article did say he was trying to turn his life around. He was a high school dropout who was working on his GED.

But, I agree...probably shouldn't be running from the cops.

I have to laugh anytime I hear "working on getting a GED".

LJ;1532493 wrote:I have to laugh anytime I hear "working on getting a GED".

Why?

OSH;1532495 wrote:Why?

Because it's extremely easy and simple to get into the test. The test is easy and in many states is around 8th grade to 10th grade level. A 19 year old "working on getting his GED" means that he says he wants to get his GED.

Plus someone who is "turning their life around" does, oh I'd say, none of what he did.