Sonofanump;1575613 wrote:Turnovers: Denver 4 plus a possession safety, Seattle 0.

What caused those interceptions and the best QB to look like shit?

Ironman92;1575621 wrote:What caused those interceptions and the best QB to look like shit?

Jeff Triplette?

Sonofanump;1575622 wrote:Jeff Triplette?

The #4 best ref just retired.

Classyposter58;1529065 wrote:Win in the trenches and you generally win the game

There ya go folks

Classyposter58;1575793 wrote:There ya go folks

What is this proving?

Everyone wants to point to something, but the tangible stat that almost always wins out is turnover differential. Yesterday was no different.

Laley23;1576053 wrote:What is this proving?

Everyone wants to point to something, but the tangible stat that almost always wins out is turnover differential. Yesterday was no different.

Looking for factor...doesn't have to be tangible.

That game was a nightmare because of pressure on Manning. The pressure directly caused at least 2 of those turnovers and regardless of turnovers Peyton wasn't leading them down the field to score on 5 yard passes.

Laley23;1576053 wrote:What is this proving?

Everyone wants to point to something, but the tangible stat that almost always wins out is turnover differential. Yesterday was no different.

Haha Manning didn't just throw random picks. He did so because he was under immense pressure all game

And the other 2 turnovers? Nothing to do with pressure. And Seattle very well could've had 2 other fumble recoveries.

Laley23;1576294 wrote:And the other 2 turnovers? Nothing to do with pressure. And Seattle very well could've had 2 other fumble recoveries.

WIthout the pressure in the face of PM all day I venture to say this game is much, much closer. Pressure on PM was the factor in this one. He has thrown more shorter routes this year, but the pressure made him to do even more. WHen a team isnt afraid of getting beat in the midrange/deap passes it is game on for the defense.

I think they made a huge tactical error. PM said on the first play they were trying to go by cadence and werent expecting that loud of noise. SBs usually arent the loudest becuase of fans from both sides, and too many important people there with no rooting interests. He called for the snap and it didnt come so he walked up to reset the play. Who knows what happens if they go into that drive assuming the noise and going what they normally do on the road.

Classyposter58;1529065 wrote:Win in the trenches and you generally win the game

This.

Laley23;1576053 wrote:What is this proving?

Everyone wants to point to something, but the tangible stat that almost always wins out is turnover differential. Yesterday was no different.

What comes 1st chicken or egg?

Winning in the trenches results in turnovers. Turnovers are a result of the effectiveness in the trenches.....either way is right.

said_aouita;1576452 wrote:This.



What comes 1st chicken or egg?

Winning in the trenches results in turnovers. Turnovers are a result of the effectiveness in the trenches.....either way is right.

Not really. Seattles offense didn't really do shit and it had nothing to do with Denver's pressure on Wilson. Also, 2/4 turnovers had NOTHING to do with pressure. Neither did the fumble by Moreno or the almost fumble by Holiday.

I doubt they have numbers for pressure on the QB resulting in wins. But the turnover battle is a proven commodity. And no, as we saw Sunday, PLENTY of turnovers have nothing to so with pressure on the QB. Chicago made it to the Super Bowl by causing a ton of turnovers and not many were from pressure.

Seattle's offense was constantly forced into 3rd downs. I blame Denver for not being able to stop them on those 3rd downs.

Offensive Play Calling.

It is taken for granted because all coaches who make it to the level of Offensive Coordinator are generally familiar with the latest concepts and the advances over time but failing to put your team in a good play affects all of the other categories; turnovers, QB Play, etc.

Part of the reason Peyton Manning is so good is not just that he has talent but that he puts his team into a good play based upon pre-snap reads most of the time. Obviously execution is key but execution is much easier when the right play is called. When the Seahawks were able to decipher Peyton's play calls, he didn't look so immortal.

Sorry Laley I'm gonna have to disagree with you, while acknowledging turnover differential is the most important statistic to winning. But we're not taking statistics, we're talking factors, which I interpret as things that happen in game.

I'm going with the battle of the trenches. You know who won the turnover battle in the 2008 Super Bowl? No one, it was 1-1. You know why one of the greatest offenses of all time got shut down by a mediocre defense? Because that mediocre defense played amazing in the trenches.

lhslep134;1576753 wrote:Sorry Laley I'm gonna have to disagree with you, while acknowledging turnover differential is the most important statistic to winning. But we're not taking statistics, we're talking factors, which I interpret as things that happen in game.

I'm going with the battle of the trenches. You know who won the turnover battle in the 2008 Super Bowl? No one, it was 1-1. You know why one of the greatest offenses of all time got shut down by a mediocre defense? Because that mediocre defense played amazing in the trenches.

Its all semantics anyway.

Someone WILL win the the battle of the trenches, and someone WILL get more pressure on the QB then the other team. Nobody HAS to win the turnover battle. But look at this game. Had Seattle turned the ball over on 3 fumbles and a terrible throw, and Denver not given it away 2 times (Ill give Seattle the ones they forced with pressure). Ill bet Denver wins the game...despite getting no pressure and having Peyton throw under it all game.

Now, usually it all goes hand-in-hand and we are really arguing a moot point. But, I believe that more times you can get a win with minimal QB pressure or winning in the trenches if you force more turnovers than the other team.

Laley....I might agree with you more than anyone on here but I can't fathom anyone watching that massacre and thought that turnovers were the main factor.

The Broncos could simply not stretch Seattle's defense. Seattle packed it in and every time Peyton tried a pass that took any time it was a failure...he was forced to get rid of it too early. The 5 yard passes had safeties and linebackers killing the receivers once they caught the short passes. Seattle was rushing 4 and getting to everything but the short passes. The one drive was 15 plays for 49 yards lol. Had Denver gotten deep a few times it would've opened up things a bit but they couldn't halt the pressure.

As for Seattle having the turnovers instead of Denver.....Denver allowed TD after TD...switching the non-forced turnovers and Peyton still has to drive his team to TD's.....can't see it.

Ironman92;1576782 wrote:Laley....I might agree with you more than anyone on here but I can't fathom anyone watching that massacre and thought that turnovers were the main factor.

The Broncos could simply not stretch Seattle's defense. Seattle packed it in and every time Peyton tried a pass that took any time it was a failure...he was forced to get rid of it too early. The 5 yard passes had safeties and linebackers killing the receivers once they caught the short passes. Seattle was rushing 4 and getting to everything but the short passes. The one drive was 15 plays for 49 yards lol. Had Denver gotten deep a few times it would've opened up things a bit but they couldn't halt the pressure.

As for Seattle having the turnovers instead of Denver.....Denver allowed TD after TD...switching the non-forced turnovers and Peyton still has to drive his team to TD's.....can't see it.

Not once have I said that it was the reason the Broncos lost.

Im just saying over the course of an entire NFL season, I think it would be.

I gave the example I did in the last post simply because the SB is the game in everyones mind.

I'm ready to move on and won't bring it back up. Lol

What Laley states is def correct.

Win the TO battle and you usually win. Go +2, +3 and the percentages go way up.

So if you had to look at one and only one stat, other than the score, to make a determination of whom won a game, the TO battle is what you look at. Yes, many times TO's are because of pressure on the QB with INT.'s and sack/fumbles and QB fumbles...