vball10set;1525118 wrote:

Very nice. A good reference too.

For all you tough guys that pulled the victory Saturday night, congratulations. You are great champions. Best wishes with your NFL dreams.

I very distinctively remember the 63-14 loss in Happy Valley in 1994 at the height of Cooperdom. I can imagine how those in PA feel after Saturday.

I buried my old man the day of the 63-14 game in Happy Valley. We watched the game at the Wake. I remember telling people "thank god he didn't have to witness anymore shit from Cooper." I hope he was watching somehow on Saturday night.

I very distinctively remember the 63-14 loss in Happy Valley in 1994 at the height of Cooperdom. I can imagine how those in PA feel after Saturday.

They lost a football game....and as Tiernan has noted...what comes around goes around. Moreover, It's not quite the same as a child being molested by coach. Nor is it as bad as being F***** by the NCAA for $60 mill etc. etc. etc.

Falcons53;1525110 wrote:Fortt is the candyass that left Penn State. He and the other players who bailed can suck it.

I'd put Silas Redd at the top of that doosher list.

Falcons53;1525124 wrote:I don't blame the kids that were in high school and decided not to go. I do blame the guys who were on the team, knew that this had nothing to do with them and bailed on their teammates. He is the only player that left and has had success. I may have been a bit too harsh with my comment, but I still think those guys bailed on their teammates.

I can't blame any of them. Here's how I see it.

1. You play for a major university with the goals and ambitions of being in high-profile games.
2. Due to something that had nothing to do with you or the football field, your program is now on sanctions. Said sanctions have been lessened now, but at the time were about as serious as you could get without simply shutting a program down.
3. Two choices: go somewhere else and get the opportunity to have those high-profile games (well, Cal might not have been the best choice for that...I mean, you get to play high-profile opponents, but under the "we gettin' stomped tonight" mindset) or stay and be forced into a crappy situation that's not the fault of you, your teammates, your current coaching staff or anyone really currently associated with the program.

Personally, if I was a player there, the only way I'd have stayed would be if I was one of those lesser-star players who was living the dream playing for my favorite D-I team that I'd idolized my whole life. Life's too short to get screwed over for shit other people did.

Heretic;1525382 wrote:I can't blame any of them. Here's how I see it.

1. You play for a major university with the goals and ambitions of being in high-profile games.
2. Due to something that had nothing to do with you or the football field, your program is now on sanctions. Said sanctions have been lessened now, but at the time were about as serious as you could get without simply shutting a program down.
3. Two choices: go somewhere else and get the opportunity to have those high-profile games (well, Cal might not have been the best choice for that...I mean, you get to play high-profile opponents, but under the "we gettin' stomped tonight" mindset) or stay and be forced into a crappy situation that's not the fault of you, your teammates, your current coaching staff or anyone really currently associated with the program.

Personally, if I was a player there, the only way I'd have stayed would be if I was one of those lesser-star players who was living the dream playing for my favorite D-I team that I'd idolized my whole life. Life's too short to get screwed over for shit other people did.

The only problem I have with that logic is the assumption that PSU wouldn't be involved in high-profile games. Yes, there is the limitation of no bowl-games, but that is 1 game at the end of the season. These kids still have a chance to compete in one of the most viewed conferences in the country. They already had two high profile games this year (Michigan and OSU), with one of the games being competitive throughout.

The only reason for PSU to no longer be in high profile games is if potential recruits stop believing PSU will survive and start looking elsewhere. I would say Bill O'Brien has done an amazing job with this PSU team the past two years and has kept the ship from sinking when the program could have imploded completely.

^^^anyone else think this is O'Brien's last year there?

vball10set;1525398 wrote:^^^anyone else think this is O'Brien's last year there?

I hope not.

On another note, if Ohio State would have received similar sanctions and top players would have left for USC, Cal or Oklahoma, Buckeye fans would have turned on them and this board would have been filled comments questioning those players manhood, righht to live and ability to think logically. Anyone on here who denies that is lying to them selves and everyone on here.

Falcons53;1525430 wrote:I hope not.

On another note, if Ohio State would have received similar sanctions and top players would have left for USC, Cal or Oklahoma, Buckeye fans would have turned on them and this board would have been filled comments questioning those players manhood, righht to live and ability to think logically. Anyone on here who denies that is lying to them selves and everyone on here.

Bullshit. If OSU received the next harshest penalty to the death penalty, I wouldn't blame 20 year olds for leaving the program to better their nfl chances.

You're reaching and you sound like a bitter old fan that is being called out for an idiotic comment and philosophy that too many penn state fans have.

Falcons53;1525430 wrote:I hope not.

On another note, if Ohio State would have received similar sanctions and top players would have left for USC, Cal or Oklahoma, Buckeye fans would have turned on them and this board would have been filled comments questioning those players manhood, righht to live and ability to think logically. Anyone on here who denies that is lying to them selves and everyone on here.

If you're talking about the fringe 2% types, yes, and they would be equally wrong.

I have zero issues with PSU players leaving and would feel the same if it were OSU or any other school.

Falcons53;1525430 wrote:I hope not.

On another note, if Ohio State would have received similar sanctions and top players would have left for USC, Cal or Oklahoma, Buckeye fans would have turned on them and this board would have been filled comments questioning those players manhood, righht to live and ability to think logically. Anyone on here who denies that is lying to them selves and everyone on here.

SportsAndLady;1525476 wrote:Bullshit. If OSU received the next harshest penalty to the death penalty, I wouldn't blame 20 year olds for leaving the program to better their nfl chances.

You're reaching and you sound like a bitter old fan that is being called out for an idiotic comment and philosophy that too many penn state fans have.

queencitybuckeye;1525478 wrote:If you're talking about the fringe 2% types, yes, and they would be equally wrong.

This. I think most fans can think rationally and accept that these are individuals trying to make the best decisions for their own future.

However, the most vocal and visible of fans are generally the lunatic fringe as queen points out.

Falcons53;1525430 wrote:I hope not.

On another note, if Ohio State would have received similar sanctions and top players would have left for USC, Cal or Oklahoma, Buckeye fans would have turned on them and this board would have been filled comments questioning those players manhood, righht to live and ability to think logically. Anyone on here who denies that is lying to them selves and everyone on here.

I wouldn't. To me, a player deserting a program that at the time, seemed to be a sinking ship is not really any different than a perennial back-up/third-stringer leaving to go somewhere he'd get more playing time -- it's an athlete doing what he feels necessary to maximize his college experience and if he finds the grass greener elsewhere, good for him.

And in this case, considering the NCAA did waive the "year off" rule for those athletes who left PSU (until recently, when the sanctions were lightened), I'd guess they actually agreed with that philosophy.

Heretic;1525497 wrote:I wouldn't. To me, a player deserting a program that at the time, seemed to be a sinking ship is not really any different than a perennial back-up/third-stringer leaving to go somewhere he'd get more playing time -- it's an athlete doing what he feels necessary to maximize his college experience and if he finds the grass greener elsewhere, good for him.

And in this case, considering the NCAA did waive the "year off" rule for those athletes who left PSU (until recently, when the sanctions were lightened), I'd guess they actually agreed with that philosophy.

I'd say it's even more understandable, as through no fault of the kids, neither the program nor the institution are remotely the same as the one they signed up for.

queencitybuckeye;1525501 wrote:I'd say it's even more understandable, as through no fault of the kids, neither the program nor the institution are remotely the same as the one they signed up for.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I was just going for another example of how you could understand a guy wanting to transfer. But in a situation where you were recruited by one coach and his staff that were now gone (at least the head coach...don't know if the new dude kept any of Joe's staff) with the program facing a ton of sanctions due to stuff no single player on the team had any control over, there's no way I could blame anyone for looking into other options.

Blame the players for leaving or not...a kid shouldn't have to make that kind of a decision or be put in that kind of spot.

Let's keep our eye on the ball here. This situation was artificially caused by pin head pencilnecks at the NCAA and their arbitary over the top ruling. The very same NCAA that filed papers in court yesterday asserting their ability to use a college players in perpetuity. The very same NCAA that hands out huge suspensioins and issues sanctions over chump change benefit violations.

I don't blame a kid for leaving. I blame the NCAA for contriving the situation.

I don't think psu's penalties were at all over the top. For years they were sending letters to prospective recruits telling them they had a squeaky clean image and had never had a major violation. While behind the scenes were harboring a child molestor on their campus and around their football program.

Midstate01;1525591 wrote:I don't think psu's penalties were at all over the top. For years they were sending letters to prospective recruits telling them they had a squeaky clean image and had never had a major violation. While behind the scenes were harboring a child molestor on their campus and around their football program.

Midstate you are 100% correct here. We all know now what JoePa knew and when he knew it. For almost a decade he allowed it to continue on the PSU campus no less. I don't think the bastards got hit "hard enough"... and yes I think O'Brian will have his bags packed out of State College the day after they play their last game in Nov.

I dont agree with Falcons perspective, but I also dont agree with S&L about leaving would better their chances in the NFL.

Midstate you are 100% correct here. We all know now what JoePa knew and when he knew it. For almost a decade he allowed it to continue on the PSU campus no less. I don't think the bastards got hit "hard enough"... and yes I think O'Brian will have his bags packed out of State College the day after they play their last game in Nov.

Oh Bullsh** on your vigilante justice. 99.999% of PSU had NO IDEA, yet they are the one's that have to bear the burden, have to pay for the mistakes of a few...one of which is in jail, the others disgraced, fired etc. Punish the guilty. Not the kids on the football team.

The NCAA has no jurisdiction in what is a criminal matter and just makes up rules and punishments as it goes along. It'll arbitrarily punish an entire institution for years and $millions for the actions of a few, all the while making $millions on the names of athletes without financial compensation and not bat an eyelash....and it has an army of lawyers to fight for it's ability to use and abuse.

HitsRus;1525577 wrote:Blame the players for leaving or not...a kid shouldn't have to make that kind of a decision or be put in that kind of spot.

Let's keep our eye on the ball here. This situation was artificially caused by pin head pencilnecks at the NCAA and their arbitary over the top ruling. The very same NCAA that filed papers in court yesterday asserting their ability to use a college players in perpetuity. The very same NCAA that hands out huge suspensioins and issues sanctions over chump change benefit violations.

I don't blame a kid for leaving. I blame the NCAA for contriving the situation.

I agree with this. Although what went on at PSU was disgusting, the punishment was much too harsh for the current players. This was a criminal act, not so much a competitive advantage for PSU. Remove and prosecute those involved, and move on.

Pick6;1525724 wrote:I dont agree with Falcons perspective, but I also dont agree with S&L about leaving would better their chances in the NFL.

What? I didn't say it would better their chances in the NFL. I said I don't blame them for thinking their NFL chances are higher playing on a different team.

SportsAndLady;1525795 wrote:What? I didn't say it would better their chances in the NFL. I said I don't blame them for thinking their NFL chances are higher playing on a different team.

I wouldn't blame 20 year olds for leaving the program to better their nfl chances.

Could be interpreted either way, I guess.

Every punishment at every school is unfair to the current kids on the roster....