robj55;1629389 wrote:Yes because that's his role with that team, but him back as a number one or two option and he gets 20 a night no problem.

sleeper;1629408 wrote:You know who else is a great shooter? Tim Duncan. He makes about $10M a year and is a key piece to the current NBA champions. Are you sure this is something you want to pin your current illogical position to?

Bosh is overpaid. This is not a debate, this is a lecture.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629405 wrote:You guys are silly if you don't think Bosh could still drop 20 a game. Look at his career stats.

In 7 seasons with Toronto, he averaged 20.2 ppg on 14.4 shot attempts and 7.4 FT attempts per game with 9.4 rebounds per game. In 4 seasons with Miami, he's averaged 17.3 ppg on 13.0 shot attempts and 4.6 FT attempts per game with 7.4 rebounds per game. He's not guilty of anything but accepting his role and adapting to the system. He took on a lesser (yet more efficient) role in order to win.

sleeper;1629408 wrote:You know who else is a great shooter? Tim Duncan. He makes about $10M a year and is a key piece to the current NBA champions. Are you sure this is something you want to pin your current illogical position to?

Bosh is overpaid. This is not a debate, this is a lecture.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629411 wrote:Everyone is overpaid. With the greed that comes with being a professional athlete anymore, if one team won't pay you, another will. That's professional sports.

robj55;1629413 wrote:You couldn't be more wrong, have you seen some of these NBA contracts? To say Bosh is only worth 10 million a year is laughable, oh and Tim Duncan is 37 years old, Bosh is 30 and he was 26 when he went to Miami.

sleeper;1629408 wrote:You know who else is a great shooter? Tim Duncan. He makes about $10M a year and is a key piece to the current NBA champions. Are you sure this is something you want to pin your current illogical position to?

Bosh is overpaid. This is not a debate, this is a lecture.

sleeper;1629410 wrote:20 a night and won't win a playoff series like he did in Toronto. Any idiot in the NBA can score 20 a night if given enough shots.

sleeper;1629415 wrote:The NBA market isn't always rational and doesn't always equal production. It's perceived production that dictates contract values in relation to other FA's on the market. Bosh is worth $10M tops if the market was rational. Again, which team correctly allocated their cap space and won an NBA championship and which team overpaid for perceived production and couldn't get the job done?

lhslep134;1629367 wrote:And here sleeper, if you don't want to take my word for it, take his:

http://grantland.com/features/chris-bosh-2014-miami-heat-career-scoring/

pmoney25;1629426 wrote:Bosh was a good player on a bad team. Not hard to pad your stats. Two playoff appearances, best season was 47 wins other playoff season was .500. Yea he could go to the Bucks and average 20 but they still would suck.

lhslep134;1629424 wrote:For anyone who would like some hard evidence that Bosh is still a fantastic player

pmoney25;1629430 wrote:fantastic? you don't believe that. good or adequate, maybe.

robj55;1629422 wrote:We aren't going off Sleeper's rational market, we are going off what the market dictates he is worth and what it actually is.

pmoney25;1629430 wrote:fantastic? you don't believe that. good or adequate, maybe.

lhslep134;1629417 wrote:You haven't actually put forth any facts substantiating your argument: all you've done is proffer opinion couched as fact. Some examples:

1) "production doesn't back up salaries". Care to elaborate? until you do, this first statement is worthless without anything to back it up.

2) "suboptimal to winning a championship". Suboptimal in what way? The way that they won the previous two championships? Once again, without elaboration, worthless fluffery.

If you guys haven't noticed, this is Sleeper's preferred form of arguing when he doesn't have any substantiated fact to back up his claims: he couches his opinions in fluff statements that he calls "facts"

Sleeper, if you ever want to join the "big leagues" of this conversation, come back with some hard evidence. Otherwise, stick to the minors on this topic.

sleeper;1629412 wrote:Name another player on the Raptors during Bosh's time. You can't, he played with trash an was their only option. How many playoff series did he win? Zero.

sleeper;1629433 wrote:You are under the assumption that the NBA market is rational. It's not. Otherwise, explain how Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis were once the highest paid players in the NBA.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629443 wrote:Pretty sure he played with DeRozen, Kyle Lowry, and Andrea Bargnani (before the injuries).

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629451 wrote:There was a span of about 3 years where Gilbert Arenas was a STUD. Not saying that he should have ever been the highest paid player in the NBA, but after averaging 27+ ppg over the course of a season, a dude's gonna get paid. Washington was just dumb enough to take it to the extreme.

sleeper;1629457 wrote:This of course is irrational. 27 PPG and zero playoff series wins. The guy is the definition of a chucker and was overpaid substantially. Thank you for proving my point that the NBA FA market is not rational.

lhslep134;1629461 wrote:Sleeper you and I are both in agreement the Heat 's current model (2013/14) didn't work. However, I vehemently stand by my assertion that Bosh had nothing to do with it, both on the court with his vastly expansive game and off the court, with his $19M salary. Again, Bosh earned his money.

The problem is very simple, and his name is Dwayne Wade. Wade's massively disproportionate salary to performance ratio, when combined with them being "hamstrung"* by the limited space available, contributed way more to the Heat's demise this year than Bosh.

Disagree?





*I'm sorry but if you're a billionaire owner, I'm not going to feel sorry you don't want to pay a few extra million dollars in salary cap penalties.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629460 wrote:Actually in 2004-2005, they advanced to the second round of the playoffs after beating Chicago in 6. Good fail, though.