QuakerOats;1516555 wrote:JFk would be considered a conservative republican in today's world ....... gives you an idea of how far left we have shifted. Simply amazing.

In the same breath you could say that Reagan would be considered a RINO for raising taxes so many times instead of standing for his conservative convictions.

Thankfully he was open to compromising though without these red lines that exist now where the party fringe on both sides want to run you out of town if you dare talk about trading taxes for spending cuts or things along that line.

gut;1516212 wrote:I'm sorry...If you get backpay PLUS unemployment...why exactly are you cancelling rather than simply delaying purchases? There's no impact only a deferral - welcome to Econ 101. Take a seat down over there next to Boatshoes.

Did you come up with this whining bitch on your own, or steal it from some bullshit liberal rag?

Who said anything about getting unemployment?

You do realize there are thousands of federal workers in every city, who are supported by thousands more businesses, contractors etc? The federal government just isn't Washington DC.

Glory Days;1516643 wrote: You do realize there are thousands of federal workers in every city, who are supported by thousands more businesses, contractors etc? The federal government just isn't Washington DC.

But there are not enough in those cities to have a big impact on the stores. That could only be the case in DC where the concentration of govt workers is higher, but most of those workers will get back pay, and many are also collecting unemployment.

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/president_obama_house_speaker.html

"The aerospace industry reported that furloughs at the Federal Aviation Administration have resulted in a virtual stop to certification of new aircraft, equipment and training simulators."

"And Keith Colburn, a crab fisherman, told lawmakers during the day that a lucrative, one-month crab harvest set to begin Oct. 15 in the Bering Sea is in jeopardy because the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is not assigning quotas to boats."

Boehner and Paul Ryan are supposedly having a massive fit right now that Susan Collins and Senate Republicans are about to jam them hard by striking a big largely bi-partisan deal with the President that will pass the Senate with big numbers.

They did this over the fiscal cliff with McConnell at the end of the year, where Boehner was busy living in his alternate reality, Senate Republicans got a deal done.

The pressure on Boehner then increases 10X fold when his own party turns on him, leaving him with no choice but to hold a vote that passes with the House with mostly Democrat votes.

The poor guy just doesn't seem to get that you can't hold out for everything forever, and that at some point people start taking matters into their own hands.

His inability to get anything done is what is continually allowing the RINO caucus in the Senate to cut his knees out from under him.

Both he and Paul Ryan should be ashamed of themselves that they have allowed Susan Collins of all people to run circles around them as she nears a deal that can actually pass.

QuakerOats;1516555 wrote:JFk would be considered a conservative republican in today's world ....... gives you an idea of how far left we have shifted. Simply amazing.

Not even close. Not unless conservative republicans believe in keynesian fiscal policy. His administration was literally the crescendo of keynesianism economic thought. JFK's Council of Economic Advisers were all Keynesians. Gardner Ackley, James Tobin, Walter Heller. This is from Heller's Wiki:

As a Keynesian, he promoted cuts in the marginal federal income tax rates. This tax cut, which was passed by President Lyndon B. Johnson and Congress after Kennedy's death, was credited for boosting the U.S. economy

The cuts in marginal tax rates were argued for on Keynesian, aggregate demand management grounds....not on supply-side grounds.

Then LBJ shat it all down his leg when he ignored the promulgations from Hyman Minsky and co. at the University of California for a New Deal style EOLR and created the hodge podge welfare state instead thinking that the poor would only need income support before the private sector would absorb them...thus creating the tool that Nixon and Reagan used to turn working class whites into Republicans for generations to come by campaigning on the theme that democrats like buying votes of minorities by handing them the tax money they steal from hard working white folks.

And that's how you get one of those folks claiming that JFK would be a Conservative Republican...

BoatShoes;1516718 wrote:Not even close. Not unless conservative republicans believe in keynesian fiscal policy. His administration was literally the crescendo of keynesianism economic thought.

Perhaps but the Democratic Party has swung so far to the left that JFK's "keynesian economic thought" would appear too moderate and he would never win his party's nomination for POTUS.

IggyPride00;1516709 wrote:Boehner and Paul Ryan are supposedly having a massive fit right now that Susan Collins and Senate Republicans are about to jam them hard by striking a big largely bi-partisan deal with the President that will pass the Senate with big numbers.

They did this over the fiscal cliff with McConnell at the end of the year, where Boehner was busy living in his alternate reality, Senate Republicans got a deal done.

The pressure on Boehner then increases 10X fold when his own party turns on him, leaving him with no choice but to hold a vote that passes with the House with mostly Democrat votes.

The poor guy just doesn't seem to get that you can't hold out for everything forever, and that at some point people start taking matters into their own hands.

His inability to get anything done is what is continually allowing the RINO caucus in the Senate to cut his knees out from under him.

Both he and Paul Ryan should be ashamed of themselves that they have allowed Susan Collins of all people to run circles around them as she nears a deal that can actually pass.

Reading through the Senate R proposal, I have no problems with it at all. It addresses problems that both sides acknowledge as issues, and raises the hours for coverage from 30 hours to 40 hours.

It makes sense, as again, sticking to the position that it is all of Obamcare gone or nothing makes no rational sense. Instead, piecemeal the problems with it, and then state they will address the issues more in the future.
Also, kicks the debt and budget to January 2014, which while not great, at least is better than the current option of November.

It can reassure the markets through the Holiday season, which I am sure is why they moved it there.
The business community is hammering the R's and D's to end this mess.

believer;1516722 wrote:Perhaps but the Democratic Party has swung so far to the left that JFK's "keynesian economic thought" would appear too moderate and he would never win his party's nomination for POTUS.

How about both parties have swung so far to the right and left that neither Kennedy or say Ike would be electable today.

Beer snobs beware, the shutdown effects you too!

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-now-its-serious-government-shutdown-hurting-beer-production-20131009,0,3647944.story

ptown_trojans_1;1516734 wrote:How about both parties have swung so far to the right and left that neither Kennedy or say Ike would be electable today.

Valid point but I would say that RINO establishment Repubs still have the final say in their party despite the Tea Party movement. Meanwhile blue dog/moderate Dems are largely extinct. Both parties are guilty of extremes but I think it's fair to say that the Dems in particular have abandoned any semblance of moderation within the party.

It is a good thing the markets aren't open Monday, because based on all the reporting today we would likely see a massive drop.

Then again, it took an 800 point drop in the market the day the 1st TARP vote failed to get the House goons to pass it on the 2nd try, so maybe that is what we need again to get Washington to realize this is not a game.

Just as the Republicans did, Democrats are starting to overplay their hand. They are winning the shutdown, but reports are coming out now that Harry Reid and Senate Liberals want sequester fixes in any deal, and that is a bridge too far right now when the primary goal needs to be averting disaster.

If the public starts to think they are trying to get "cute" like the Republicans with their wish list, they will turn on them just as quickly as they did the Republicans.

Dingey Harry seems to be trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

If anything comes of this, I hope that people realize that the "Buck Stops Here", does not apply to this president who doesn't have the marbles to take responsibility for anything.

HitsRus;1517104 wrote:If anything comes of this, I hope that people realize that the "Buck Stops Here", does not apply to this president who doesn't have the marbles to take responsibility for anything.

You think Obama gets a free pass?

Just wait until Hillary and Slick Willy are back in the White House in a few years.

Barry is an amateur when it comes to destroying your enemy. The Clinton's invented the politics of personal destruction.

To see the Republican Party coming apart at the seems right now against a no nothing like Obama does not give me hope for the future once a set of real pros like the Clinton machine once again assume the thrown.

I hear ya, Iggy.

Oh by the way, obama and Reid said 'no', for about the 15th time this past week. It's their way or the highway; to hell with the Will of The People.

[video=youtube;0Jd-iaYLO1A][/video]

QuakerOats;1517145 wrote:I hear ya, Iggy.

Oh by the way, obama and Reid said 'no', for about the 15th time this past week. It's their way or the highway; to hell with the Will of The People.

and the Republicans have said "no" 14 times. what is your point?

IggyPride00;1517039 wrote:It is a good thing the markets aren't open Monday, because based on all the reporting today we would likely see a massive drop.

Then again, it took an 800 point drop in the market the day the 1st TARP vote failed to get the House goons to pass it on the 2nd try, so maybe that is what we need again to get Washington to realize this is not a game.

Just as the Republicans did, Democrats are starting to overplay their hand. They are winning the shutdown, but reports are coming out now that Harry Reid and Senate Liberals want sequester fixes in any deal, and that is a bridge too far right now when the primary goal needs to be averting disaster.

If the public starts to think they are trying to get "cute" like the Republicans with their wish list, they will turn on them just as quickly as they did the Republicans.

Dingey Harry seems to be trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Yeah, agreed that the D's in the Senate may be trying too hard. The Sequester cuts are going to be felt in FY14. Story not being reported, and they are right to try and stop them, as they make no rational sense. But, trying now is asking too much.

Agree to the CR that goes till January, and the Debt limit that goes till January as well, and then in November move on the Sequester cuts, and other items.

But, bigger picture, looks like the R's are waking up to the idea that Obamacare is not going away, nor the D's that they cannot simply accept the program as is.

Glory Days;1517304 wrote:and the Republicans have said "no" 14 times. what is your point?

He just sees things in his own crazy world view. The R's are never in the wrong, ever.

I Wear Pants;1517150 wrote:[video=youtube;0Jd-iaYLO1A][/video]

Those wascally republicans are at it again. Making rules in a branch of government they hold the majority. Shocking. This kind of reminds me of when the democrats bitch about gerrymandering. Its all good until the republicans engage in it themselves. Then it becomes a despicable heinous practice.

See republicans are supposed to take the high road in the interest of fairness. I remember the 50/50 split in the senate when Bush first took office. The evil Darth Cheney held the deciding vote. The republicans held the house and executive. In the interest of fairness especially with the close 2000 presidential election the republicans agreed to a power sharing agreement that evenly divided committee membership as well as other Senate procedural matters. Months later democrats lured Jim Jeffords to leave the republican party and caucus with them. Jeffords was assured a committee chair in the new aristocracy in exchange as well as selling a portion of his future votes to the democrats. First time power changed hands in the senate outside of an election and instead through back room political deals. But in the end all was well because democrats had assumed their natural state of majority party in the senate.

ptown_trojans_1;1517317 wrote:...The R's are never in the wrong, ever.

On fiscal matters they usually are right. Correction, they are usually less wrong.

These clowns need voted out of office.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dc-crowd-pushes-barriers-wwii-memorial-20557651

A crowd converged on the World War II Memorial on the National Mall on Sunday, pushing past barriers to protest the memorial's closing under the government shutdown.

Republican Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Mike Lee of Utah, along with former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, were part of the demonstrators.

Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are cartoons.

That the administration has barricaded our Memorials is simply sinful.

Throw the sons of bitches in the streets!!!!

QuakerOats;1517456 wrote:That the administration has barricaded our Memorials is simply sinful.

Throw the sons of bitches in the streets!!!!

The Government is shutdown....it is what it is.
Don't complain what is and not open.
A solution is needed.