SportsAndLady;1473500 wrote:They have the offense, they need timely hitting. Who is their 3rd starter in the playoffs? You get Sale or someone like him, you have a ridiculous 3 man rotation...all you'll need is the offense to get a few timely hits.

I have more faith in their rotation right now than I do there 4 man lineup. I would have no problem with getting Sale, at all. I also wouldn't mind if they chose to upgrade their offense either.

I keep hearing Sale by fans of different teams. Is there any legs to these rumors at all?

I mean, I know ChiSox are cleaning house. But Sale is under contract through 2018...and a legit Ace. Why would Chicago part with him this year? and especially for something less than 3 top prospects (probably a lot more, imo).

Check that. Sale is signed through 2019!!!

Till 2017 guaranteed (6.25M per yr). 18 an 19 team options.

Laley23;1473553 wrote:I keep hearing Sale by fans of different teams. Is there any legs to these rumors at all?

I mean, I know ChiSox are cleaning house. But Sale is under contract through 2018...and a legit Ace. Why would Chicago part with him this year? and especially for something less than 3 top prospects (probably a lot more, imo).

I doubt they trade him, but if you can trade an ace for a handful of top prospects, it's the right thing to do if you're rebuilding. Though I certainly don't know the state of the pitching they have in the minors.

se-alum;1473562 wrote:I doubt they trade him, but if you can trade an ace for a handful of top prospects, it's the right thing to do if you're rebuilding. Though I certainly don't know the state of the pitching they have in the minors.

I agree. But its different when the Ace is a FA in a few years. They have him for the next 6.5 years.

Laley23;1473566 wrote:I agree. But its different when the Ace is a FA in a few years. They have him for the next 6.5 years.

But will he be an ace in 6.5 years, history says highly doubtful. Do you have him pitch through rebuilding years in hopes that he'll still be good enough at the end of the rebuilding period to still be an ace pitcher or do you go ahead and trade him while he has high value and can accelerate the rebuilding process? Tough decision.

se-alum;1473574 wrote:But will he be an ace in 6.5 years, history says highly doubtful. Do you have him pitch through rebuilding years in hopes that he'll still be good enough at the end of the rebuilding period to still be an ace pitcher or do you go ahead and trade him while he has high value and can accelerate the rebuilding process? Tough decision.

Yeah, who knows. Glad I dont make those decisions.

Chapman for Peralta and a prospect?

Classyposter58;1473654 wrote:Chapman for Peralta and a prospect?

No....he can't even spell his fucking name.

Classyposter58;1473654 wrote:Chapman for Peralta and a prospect?

Nobody wants a guy who is gonna be suspended on their team lol.

But Castellanos (or however its spelled) is intriguing for the Tigers. I doubt they trade him though. They are pretty high on his future.

We will see how intuitive Walt is. He's got 4 major injuries in Cueto (starter), Broxton (righty setup), Marshall (lefty setup) and Ludwick (middle of the order outfielder) to project. Projections on when they get back and how much they will be themselves will drive the Reds' "needs."

The Reds don't have a strong system above A-ball. They have very few guys close to the majors that a team not in full rebuild would want. They also lack quality hitting prospects. Their pitching in the low minors is solid, but given how they have developed Bailey, Leake, Cingrani, Cueto in a system of pitching, I don't see them being that willing to deal too many arms. Stephenson, Cisco, Travieso, Garrett and Contreras, all guys other teams might want. Interestingly enough, their best 3 hitting prospects right now (Hamilton, Winker and Ervin) are all outfielders.

Azubuike24;1473786 wrote:We will see how intuitive Walt is. He's got 4 major injuries in Cueto (starter), Broxton (righty setup), Marshall (lefty setup) and Ludwick (middle of the order outfielder) to project. Projections on when they get back and how much they will be themselves will drive the Reds' "needs."

The Reds don't have a strong system above A-ball. They have very few guys close to the majors that a team not in full rebuild would want. They also lack quality hitting prospects. Their pitching in the low minors is solid, but given how they have developed Bailey, Leake, Cingrani, Cueto in a system of pitching, I don't see them being that willing to deal too many arms. Stephenson, Cisco, Travieso, Garrett and Contreras, all guys other teams might want. Interestingly enough, their best 3 hitting prospects right now (Hamilton, Winker and Ervin) are all outfielders.

I think Stephenson and Travieso are probably untouchable, but the other guys could be traded. Other than Bronson, our oldest starter is 27 years old, so if they wrap up Bailey with an extension, and replace Bronson with Cingrani, then we aren't going to need many extra arms.

SportsAndLady;1473500 wrote:They have the offense, they need timely hitting. Who is their 3rd starter in the playoffs? You get Sale or someone like him, you have a ridiculous 3 man rotation...all you'll need is the offense to get a few timely hits.

Their third starter in the playoffs is Arroyo. Period. No matter who else is available or if they're better or how much they're better. It. Is. Arroyo.

Heretic;1473931 wrote:Their third starter in the playoffs is Arroyo. Period. No matter who else is available or if they're better or how much they're better. It. Is. Arroyo.

If they have Sale available and they still choose to pitch Arroyo then Dusty Baker should be kicked out of baseball forever and ever

ohiobucks1;1473933 wrote:If they have Sale available and they still choose to pitch Arroyo then Dusty Baker should be kicked out of baseball forever and ever

I think he def meant if the playoffs started today lol

SportsAndLady;1473934 wrote:I think he def meant if the playoffs started today lol

Oh ok. Sorry Heretic lol

Heretic;1473931 wrote:Their third starter in the playoffs is Arroyo. Period. No matter who else is available or if they're better or how much they're better. It. Is. Arroyo.

If Leake pitches close to what he has been this season he is the 3rd guy unless homer starts to dominate. Arroyo would be banished to LR in a blowout game, or if the reds blow through pitching and in the 10+ they need someone who can pitch until its over...

Bailey has had a strong 2nd half the last 2 years, so lets hope he keeps that up.

Right now, the playoff rotation is Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake.

Johnny Cueto hasn't proven he can really pitch more than a single game without some sort of issue. He's been on the DL 3 times with the same injury in a matter of 2 and a half months.

Az, what ya think about JC? Think he needs to change his delivery? Go through an intense offseason ab/oblique strength AND stretching program? He cannot be an effective pitcher for the team if he continues to get injured. Thankfully Cingrani was there to pick up the slack.

Cueto has to change his delivery, if not now, during the offseason.

The Reds keep saying the delivery has nothing to do with the injury, but I believe that's 100% false. I've posted on here many times why.

I also think it's stupid that they are spending time "resting" the injury. It's like a band-aid. If you aren't removing the antagonist, what's the point of the rest?

There is the public statements and the private statements that a team makes. Who knows, maybe his delivery doesn't have anything to do with it but damn, it sures seems like it would. You would almost think they would want him to change it even if that isn't why he is hurt. It isn't like he really slings himself from that motion, he does it fairly slowly, and the generous thinking is the more movements you have the more can go wrong.

I also think it could be that they don't want to concede the delivery. Remember, before that delivery change, Cueto wasn't nearly as successful as he is now. Also, changing it could mean a year of "kinks" being worked out. If that's the case, are the Reds getting their value in a guy they gave a decent contract too? What happens if he starts to change it, misses the rest of the this season, is shaky in 2014 and all of the sudden in 2015, the Reds are looking at a 10 million dollar option to keep him (he's an unrestricted FA after 2015, team option for 2015 of 10M). Even if he's "back to good and 100%", that's a situation where the two parties may not see eye to eye on a deal. All of this could come into play on why they are approaching this injury how they are, hoping he can get by with rehab, changing his fitness routines and not have to revamp his whole approach in the prime of his career.

My theory, in-short...if you just look at basic Kinesiology, a lat muscle in the back isn't going to sustain an injury like this without direct stimulation. It's not something that is going to completely tear (like he was just diagnosed with) by getting out of bed or some fluky occurance. So, 1 of 2 things. It's A) his delivery or B) some other training/lifting he is doing (pull-ups, isolated lat movements) that might be causing it. It could be the combination of it. I'd suspect if that's the case, they may not give this information publically, but after the 3rd damn time of the same injury causing a DL stint, you would think some comments would be made as to what's going on.

Other Reds news:

A puzzling move, the Reds have optioned pitcher Tony Cingrani to the AZL Reds of the Arizona Fall League. No roster move has been made and he was on the 25-man roster. Potential trade?

The July 4th game that was postponed against the Giants will be made up as a doubleheader on July 23rd at AT&T Park. The Reds will be the home team for the first game of the doubleheader, but all stats in the game will be officially recorded as "road" numbers.

This makes that roster move especially puzzling considering the Reds will need 6 starters as they play 14 games in the next 13 days.