BoatShoes;1467353 wrote:This is why these memes created by Republicans and Conservative talk radio are so effective. Even as the evidence has been brought to bear that this type of thing did not take place the meme perpetuates. The "scandal" has been revealed to be a non-scandal but that don't matter...the scandle-mania whipped up has been effective.

How can you type that with a straight face. ALL the evidence gathered thus far says that indeed the IRS targeted conservative groups; it is irrefutable. Furthermore, the ongoing investigations will reveal even more illegal activity against conservative groups; most of us look forward to that information. Oh, and Lois Lerner and her attorneys continue to say she did not waive her right, but now she will testify in return for full immunity. My, my ............ she says she did nothing wrong, but she needs full immunity. Hilarious.

Keep spewing your bull sheeeeeeet; if nothing more it provides comedic relief.

BoatShoes;1467408 wrote:You're not going to get slammed. Even teh librulz in Kalifornia have an offer out to white healthy males for relatively cheap catastrophic coverage. Matter of fact, there may be an initial rate shock but the rise in healthcare costs has actually started to slow. So, we were already on a path to catastrophe with healthcare costs spiraling upward every year so an initial rate shock with control over growth in costs will make us better off in the long run.

Wrong again .............. these healthy folks will be paying a few thousand for coverage that includes such wondrous things as $5,000 deductibles and a policy that covers just half their medical costs. Oh joy. Luckily though, they will be healthier, because they will not be allowed to buy sodas in excess of 16 OZ ........................ fuc cing hilarious. The liberal elite nanny state .....what a utopia.


Change we can believe in....

Manhattan Buckeye;1467399 wrote:"But, here you are more confident than ever that you know what's going on."

I'm confident you have no idea what you're talking about, yet still do.

I would gladly stack up my arguments/predictions/evidence-of-knowing-what-is-going-on that are searchable on this board with yours and CCrunners.

(A nice example of yours was complaining about the value of your Virginia home while also complaining about Quantitative easing and Bernanke "Screwing us"...apparently failing to grasp...that one of the ways that Quantitative Easing attempts to improve the economy is by generating increases in the prices of assets like Homes...Ironically, conservatives are now complaining about QE causing asset price inflation).

QuakerOats;1467411 wrote:How can you type that with a straight face. ALL the evidence gathered thus far says that indeed the IRS targeted conservative groups; it is irrefutable. Furthermore, the ongoing investigations will reveal even more illegal activity against conservative groups; most of us look forward to that information. Oh, and Lois Lerner and her attorneys continue to say she did not waive her right, but now she will testify in return for full immunity. My, my ............ she says she did nothing wrong, but she needs full immunity. Hilarious.

Keep spewing your bull sheeeeeeet; if nothing more it provides comedic relief.

You really should let this one go. If there is any political malfeasance in this case it is on the part of Darrel Issa in his politicization of the IG auditing process and his failure to be forthright with private testimony provided to the Oversight Committee. But of course, only Freedom-loving, Constitutional Conservatives who love our Constitution so much and all the rights it affords would infer that invoking Constitutional rights necessarily provides evidence of devious corruption and wrong-doing. Oh wait, they're just FOS and care nothing about the Constitution when it stands in the way of their path toward revealing the corruption of the Community Activist Agitator lol.

BoatShoes;1467408 wrote:You're not going to get slammed. Even teh librulz in Kalifornia have an offer out to white healthy males for relatively cheap catastrophic coverage. Matter of fact, there may be an initial rate shock but the rise in healthcare costs has actually started to slow. So, we were already on a path to catastrophe with healthcare costs spiraling upward every year so an initial rate shock with control over growth in costs will make us better off in the long run.

So you're buying off on the "we have to pay more now to pay less later" bullshit I see?

We'll pay a lot more now and continue to pay more later. ObamaKare does NOTHING to "fix the mess". But - oh - that's right, at least the Dems had a - um - "plan". :rolleyes:

BoatShoes;1467417 wrote:I would gladly stack up my arguments/predictions/evidence-of-knowing-what-is-going-on that are searchable on this board with yours and CCrunners.

(A nice example of yours was complaining about the value of your Virginia home while also complaining about Quantitative easing and Bernanke "Screwing us"...apparently failing to grasp...that one of the ways that Quantitative Easing attempts to improve the economy is by generating increases in the prices of assets like Homes...Ironically, conservatives are now complaining about QE causing asset price inflation).

The only thing that drove up the value of our home was the foreclosure-in-holdup program that kept inventory low. It had nothing to do with quantitative easing.

It is truly amazing how you continually post, get slapped on every thread and still nothing.

You should change your moniker to "Jon Snow".

Manhattan Buckeye;1467432 wrote:The only thing that drove up the value of our home was the foreclosure-in-holdup program that kept inventory low. It had nothing to do with quantitative easing.

It is truly amazing how you continually post, get slapped on every thread and still nothing.

You should change your moniker to "Jon Snow".

It is genuinely amazing that you think I'm "getting slapped" when it is your points that fall flat....Do you read the news and what Conservatives like John Taylor and Martin Feldstein have started making about QE w/ regard to asset prices?

Gut, Sleeper (if let out of the basement/post in basement), BGFalcons...any of the others who've argued with me about how QE affects on asset prices want to challenge Manhattan Buckeye's claim? I even think FFT argued a while back in one of his rare posts that low interest rates associated with QE could lead to a search-for-yield or portfolio rebalancing effect that might generate asset price inflation. I know you respect his opinion (as opposed to mine).

believer;1467431 wrote:So you're buying off on the "we have to pay more now to pay less later" bullshit I see?

We'll pay a lot more now and continue to pay more later. ObamaKare does NOTHING to "fix the mess". But - oh - that's right, at least the Dems had a - um - "plan". :rolleyes:

Look...Ronald Reagan...Bob Dole and the tea partiers/conservatives at the time decried medicare as socialized medicine (which it is unlike Obamacare) and declared the end of capitalism and the end of private property...etc. etc. all the dire things people like you are saying about Obamacare now.

Ronald Reagan said this:

“If you don’t stop Medicare and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”

And yet, you as an aging boomer are going to get all of the benefits of medicare which has actually improved the lives of seniors greatly and made them inexplicably more free with a much greater and higher liberty than seniors previously had when a majority of them were in poverty or a burden on their families and unable to live mostly self-reliant fulfilling lives in old age. It is now one of the most popular programs in America and none of the claims made by President Reagan have remotely come true half a century after the fact.

We could've done better than Obummercare but it's not going to be the disaster Republicans hope it will be.

QuakerOats;1467411 wrote:Keep spewing your bull sheeeeeeet; if nothing more it provides comedic relief.

Okay, Mr. Obama's Getting Blown Out In The Election And It Won't Be Close. It's pretty much a given that whatever you say, the exact opposite is probably correct.

Perhaps this mandate delay is just another ruse to draw attention away from the other scandals; the types of which forced Nixon into resignation. An esteemed liberal had a piece in a liberal publication the other day about how obama should be impeached immediately over the NSA scandal ............ let alone the tyrannical acts of IRS and media intimidation, and of course forgetting about Benghazi and Fast-n-Furious. She was spot on.

BoatShoes;1467458 wrote:It is genuinely amazing that you think I'm "getting slapped" when it is your points that fall flat....Do you read the news and what Conservatives like John Taylor and Martin Feldstein have started making about QE w/ regard to asset prices?

Gut, Sleeper (if let out of the basement/post in basement), BGFalcons...any of the others who've argued with me about how QE affects on asset prices want to challenge Manhattan Buckeye's claim? I even think FFT argued a while back in one of his rare posts that low interest rates associated with QE could lead to a search-for-yield or portfolio rebalancing effect that might generate asset price inflation. I know you respect his opinion (as opposed to mine).

I know this and I'll keep it simple.

I haven't been to the U.S. since March '12, i read the scandals and crap going on and wonder what on earth is going on. It is almost as if it is a joke country. That isn't the country I grew up in.

Record deficits (and debt)
No movement on real unemployment
Student debt levels to the point of government intervention (as if they should have intervened in the first place)
Benghazi
Egypt
IRS targeting certain groups
Wiretaps on news agencies
Snowden - the entire situation
The EU angry about our surveillance (on some parts I agree with this administration's stance)

It just keeps going and going and going. At some point can't we agree that this administration is incompetent...without going into ObamaKare?

QuakerOats;1467474 wrote:Perhaps this mandate delay is just another ruse to draw attention away from the other scandals; the types of which forced Nixon into resignation. An esteemed liberal had a piece in a liberal publication the other day about how obama should be impeached immediately over the NSA scandal ............ let alone the tyrannical acts of IRS and media intimidation, and of course forgetting about Benghazi and Fast-n-Furious. She was spot on.

Take the lead. Get on the phone. Please, just get the process started and stop letting the community organizer destroy our country in the meantime. Calling for impeachment on a website is a waste of time. The longer we go without impeachment the more and more America becomes a shell of its former self. Let America see that conservatives will not stand for such ineptitude and contempt for the Real, True, 'Murican way of life. I'm sure it will go swimmingly. I'm sure even more than the 48 Nixon Administration Officials will be found guilty of federal crimes!


As far as the esteemed liberal goes. The policies afforded to the NSA are absurd, and ridiculous and overbroad and they should be repealed by Congress who authorized them or struck down for overbreadth by the Supreme Court.

While I am not a fan of the law, it does not solve the core problem of healthcare, rising costs.
But, the thing is without the law, prices and healthcare would still be going up.
So, let's not pretend that the law has forced prices and premiums up.
That was happening regardless of the law being passed into law.

It is like we forgot that before the law prices were going up anyways.

ptown_trojans_1;1467488 wrote:While I am not a fan of the law, it does not solve the core problem of healthcare, rising costs.
But, the thing is without the law, prices and healthcare would still be going up.
So, let's not pretend that the law has forced prices and premiums up.
That was happening regardless of the law being passed into law.

It is like we forgot that before the law prices were going up anyways.

It doesn't "solve it" but the pilot programs in the law provide interesting research opportunities for new payment and care delivery mechanisms and healthcare costs across the economy have decelerated as the law has gone into implementation. It remains to be seen how much the overall effect Obamacare will have to do with that and they could've gotten more (like a better safe harbor for med mal, etc) but, to say that there's "no cost control" or "Doesn't Solve the Cost Problem" is Bowles-Simpson/Washington-Post style Boiler-Plate.

ccrunner609;1467511 wrote:if that is the case then why did there have to be a massive overhaul of the whole system? Why not just modify simple things like selling across state lines to increase competition and let the free market take care of it?

You can buy health insurance "across state lines" through the state based health care exchanges.

And, you had to do it that way because the McCarron-Ferguson act gives the State's the power to regulate insurance companies and states-righters didn't want that power to cede to the Federal government when the Supreme Court ruled that Feds could do so under the Commerce Clause in U.S. v. South-Eastern Underwriters.

Consequently, with 50 different state health insurance regulators...just blanket allowing across state lines would've lead to insurance companies picking and choosing their regulators, picking only healthy people, and all kinds of very distortive regulatory competition...nothing at all like free market competition.

We could just allow the federal government to regulate insurance companies and get rid of the out dated state by state regime but Conservative State's-Righters would've hated that.

The State Exchanges/Marketplaces basically provide the outcome that you're calling for.

BoatShoes;1467477 wrote:Take the lead. Get on the phone. Please, just get the process started and stop letting the community organizer destroy our country in the meantime. Calling for impeachment on a website is a waste of time. The longer we go without impeachment the more and more America becomes a shell of its former self.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/06/29/former-rep-demands-presidents-impeachment-in-left-wing-magazine-78867

a liberal finally got something right.

ccrunner609;1467511 wrote:if that is the case then why did there have to be a massive overhaul of the whole system? Why not just modify simple things like selling across state lines to increase competition and let the free market take care of it?

It's not a complete overhaul.
It doesn't touch Medicare, Medicaid or a majority of employee based services.
Private insurances were going up anyways regardless of the law. They do every year and will every year.

BoatShoes;1467513 wrote:It doesn't "solve it" but the pilot programs in the law provide interesting research opportunities for new payment and care delivery mechanisms and healthcare costs across the economy have decelerated as the law has gone into implementation. It remains to be seen how much the overall effect Obamacare will have to do with that and they could've gotten more (like a better safe harbor for med mal, etc) but, to say that there's "no cost control" or "Doesn't Solve the Cost Problem" is Bowles-Simpson/Washington-Post style Boiler-Plate.

Well, sure, we will see, and that doesn't sound reassuring. But, it created a mess, and has left Medicare and Medicaid still broke.
Looking back at it, the President should have tackled those two huge items first, it wouldn't be sexy, but it would have set up the base to then move to the private side and help the uninsured.

He also turned it over to Congress, another huge mistake, as it let that massive failure of an institution to write the thing.

But, as a result of this mess, the President lost a ton of political capital and pretty much screwed his domestic agenda.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/09/18/obamacare-walgreens-dropping-current-coverage-for-160000-workers-n1703815


The companies who are looking to dump, by the way, collectively employ 8.7 million workers.



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/041815_US_companies_healthcare_plans_Obamacare.html#ixzz2fSW8jO1m

CA Dem wishes death upon Ted Cruz staffer's children...

'May your children all die of debilitating, painful and incurable diseases'...



Nice, just a little more hate from the left.

Late Wednesday, Obama officials admitted that the Obamacare exchanges pose so many "cybersecurity threats" that it is instituting a new "rapid response mechanism," a call center to field consumer complaints. It has also produced a publication on how to "Protect Yourself From Fraud In The Health Insurance Marketplace."
The Federal Trade Commission says it expects fraudsters and scam artists to use Obamacare to target victims. Analysts say Obamacare is primed and ready for massive online identity theft by con artists.
“There are people licking their chops and saying, 'A sucker is born every minute,'” said Health Access California director Elizabeth Abbott.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/20/Obamacare-Software-Glitch-Giving-Wrong-Prices

The People are screwed, by government, again.


Change we can believe in ...

QuakerOats;1504472 wrote: The Federal Trade Commission says it expects fraudsters and scam artists to use Obamacare to target victims. Analysts say Obamacare is primed and ready for massive online identity theft by con artists.

You call it "identity theft"...Dems call it "new voters"

QuakerOats;1504472 wrote:Late Wednesday, Obama officials admitted that the Obamacare exchanges pose so many "cybersecurity threats" that it is instituting a new "rapid response mechanism," a call center to field consumer complaints. It has also produced a publication on how to "Protect Yourself From Fraud In The Health Insurance Marketplace."
The Federal Trade Commission says it expects fraudsters and scam artists to use Obamacare to target victims. Analysts say Obamacare is primed and ready for massive online identity theft by con artists.
“There are people licking their chops and saying, 'A sucker is born every minute,'” said Health Access California director Elizabeth Abbott.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/20/Obamacare-Software-Glitch-Giving-Wrong-Prices

The People are screwed, by government, again.


Change we can believe in ...

QuakerOats has come full circle. He is arguing against competitive marketplaces because individual market actors may potentially commit fraud! Market Failure!! LOL

No, he isn't .......... you are so far into the kool-aid though you are not worth debating.

Enjoy the wine ..... chase an ambulance or two if you can work it in.

It's ironic that Repubs cried when Dems backdoored Obamacare, and now Dems are crying that Repubs are trying to backdoor repealing it.

By all accounts it's a shitty law....Defund, delay, replace, repeal whatever - hard to claim the highground and continuing to ramrod this thru. Deepdown I think Dems want that because a trainwreck certainly does them no good.

So we engage in the rhetoric and dance to see who score political points from doing what needs to be done. And actually only the Dems really stand to gain from dragging this out when everyone knows it isn't ready to be implemented.

It will be very interesting. I think we may have a govt shutdown, and then Dems will agree to the delay and try to claim they were the reasonable and responsible ones all along.

gut;1504600 wrote:It will be very interesting. I think we may have a govt shutdown, and then Dems will agree to the delay and try to claim they were the reasonable and responsible ones all along.

And the mainstream media will be all to happy to help the Dems paint that picture.

No matter. This is bad, bad legislation and EVERYONE knows it. Whatever it takes I suppose.