Some very interesting viewpoints at another board. This might be a tipping point. Even some of the Obama/left wing sympathizers are starting to admit that there is a bit of trouble at the WH. So which one bothers you the most? Benghazi? IRS? AP wiretap?

Benghazi .. American died and Hillary and Obama incompentency demostrated and the continues cover-up means this goes deep into the Obama administration of failure. Plus this cover-up was on the heel of an election which makes this situation "politcal fruad" to the American people

A poll without a poll. Intradasting.

ernest_t_bass;1442641 wrote:A poll without a poll. Intradasting.

Tried, can retry it....again overseas a lot of this stuff doesn't work. A mod can fix it for me.

That is why I put the question in the text.

I think all three are deplorable, each in their own way. No need to split hairs on which is worse. I hope all three come with the right and swift justice.

Proverbs 14:34

Well let's see, we have one horrific situation where completely inept leadership led to American deaths followed by lies and coverup; then another despicable situation where American patriots were made targets by their own government followed by lies and coverup; and lastly outright theft by the government of sensitive, proprietary information, and basic rights, to be followed up by lies and coverup.

Pretty hard to make a selection.


Maybe the poll should be:

Have we elected the enemy to the White House: Yes / No

In reality, the IRS scandal is the largest, but it would be tough to vote against loss of life.

Maybe we are finding out why the government has been buying up all the ammo.

It's the AP scandal, and I'm not sure it's even close. Nothing tops coercion and intimidation of the media. And we've heard about more subtle forms of this from the administration, but the media is supposed to be the watchdogs. This is an assault on the FIRST amendment.

This is all bad. And I hope the media is feeling like the sucker. Without their unquestioning loyalty to Obama he never would have been re-elected.

In reality, none of these scandals will have an effect on the Teflon King, KB1.

Those who voted for him will never see any of these scandals as an issue or problem...and certainly not hold him accountable for any of them.

If they blame anyone, it will be GWB.

gut;1442679 wrote:It's the AP scandal, and I'm not sure it's even close. Nothing tops coercion and intimidation of the media. And we've heard about more subtle forms of this from the administration, but the media is supposed to be the watchdogs. This is an assault on the FIRST amendment.

This is all bad. And I hope the media is feeling like the sucker. Without their unquestioning loyalty to Obama he never would have been re-elected.

agreed

edit- sorry hit post before I could continue.

If not for the press, we wouldn't know about the other two (or other many) mistakes of our government. This is the foundation of the First Amendment. As one of my friends told me over lunch, it was a bad week for Obama to talk about not buying into the tyranny of government at his OSU speech.

AP: I think the AP scandal is far and away the worst. It is a travesty. The administration wants to find out who is leaking to the press...spying on the press is not the way to do it. Holder should be gone already. I don't know how Obama escapes this...either appears woefully incompetent or incredibly corrupt.

Benghazi: I know I'm the only one here who thinks this but Benghazi has been blown out of proportion and distinguished non-partisan men like Tom Pickering, Adm. Mullen and Robert Gates have all come on board with the suggestion that the men could not be saved. To think otherwise is a "cartoonish view" of the military as Gates said and I'll take his word for it. The Talking Points revisions are an embarrassment but not a scandal and Susan Rice could've done a better job citing them without being so adamant that it was the video. The Talking Points, even in their final version, were not as adamant as she came off on T.V. Need to find out exactly who the person was who made each revision and why. Need more evidence to suggest that it is a political cover-up and not just precaution.

IRS: As of right now. I don't think it's going to end up being that bad in the end. Maybe I will be wrong but I think this is more the "appearance of corruption" than actual corruption. The IRS has been plagued with problems with enforcing s501 for years and all these Tea Party groups pop up in 2010 and they unfairly targeted them thinking they were not legitimate social welfare groups. I doubt that this will reflect some malicious attempt by the administration to shut down conservatives....but if it does....then I think this will be the worst scandal and would warrant impeachment.

The IRS enforcement of non-profit status needs to be separated into an idependent commission and if Obama has any hope of saving face he should propose something like this immediately.

Imagine if people had known these things last September???

How is anything going to get done after this?

QuakerOats;1442673 wrote:Maybe we are finding out why the government has been buying up all the ammo.

Out of frustration I'm buy more ammo and looking into buying another Sig AR15/M16

BoatShoes;1442697 wrote:AP: I think the AP scandal is far and away the worst. It is a travesty. The administration wants to find out who is leaking to the press...spying on the press is not the way to do it. Holder should be gone already. I don't know how Obama escapes this...either appears woefully incompetent or incredibly corrupt.

Benghazi: I know I'm the only one here who thinks this but Benghazi has been blown out of proportion and distinguished non-partisan men like Tom Pickering, Adm. Mullen and Robert Gates have all come on board with the suggestion that the men could not be saved. To think otherwise is a "cartoonish view" of the military as Gates said and I'll take his word for it. The Talking Points revisions are an embarrassment but not a scandal and Susan Rice could've done a better job citing them without being so adamant that it was the video. Need to find out exactly who the person was who made each revision and why. Need more evidence to suggest that it is a political cover-up and not just precaution.

IRS: As of right now. I don't think it's going to end up being that bad in the end. Maybe I will be wrong but I think this is more the "appearance of corruption" than actual corruption. The IRS has been plagued with problems with enforcing s501 for years and all these Tea Party groups pop up in 2010 and they unfairly targeted them thinking they were not legitimate social welfare groups. I doubt that this will reflect some malicious attempt by the administration to shut down conservatives....but if it does....then I think this will be the worst scandal and would warrant impeachment.

The IRS enforcement of non-profit status needs to be separated into an idependent commission and if Obama has any hope of saving face he should propose something like this immediately.

Imagine if people had known this things last September???

BoatShoes do I detect a bit of Obama displeasure in your post? ... mofo

I think "massaging" the talking points can be viewed in a whole different light with the others. This administration goes to extreme lengths, and very questionable ethically, to control information and shape the message. Every WH does that to varying degrees, but we've never seen anything like this administration. I guess when you have a perpetual campaigner context trumps substance.

1) Holder has to go, and it's very problematic for Obama to claim he had no knowledge or involvement, especially given #2 below. Viewed in totality, it's starting to look like Obama has not only delegated key responsibilities of the POTUS, but wants no knowledge (read: plausible deniability) of what is being done.

2) The big problem with the IRS scandal is Obama claimed he just found out Friday. How is this possible? How does he run this administration? At best Obama has a major issue with information being withheld from him. You look at Holder and you look at the IRS - if these aren't marching order from up high, then at best this is a culture Obama has established with the people he's hired.

3) Now viewed thru the prism of the two above, Benghazi is just the icing on the cake. The "smoke" before the fire, if you will. Again, we can debate about how the crisis was handled before and during - we'll never know if lives could have been saved because they didn't try. But the point is that on an attack on US citizens and a US embassy, Obama went AWOL. Then they tried to cover-up their incompetence and push a narrative to serve their re-election interests.

goddamn it, it was so much easier when Obama could just blame Bush

It's like...sure...you can say here and there "I didn't know" but Obama consistently "doesn't know". Shit, are you asking anybody in your administration about what's going on???

It's either total aloofness/incompetence/Not Caring/Ignoring Basic Adminstrative Obligations to focus on Agenda or there comes a point where it is willful blindness and/or outright intentional deception (which is always hard to prove when you constantly deny, deny, deny). None of those those are good adjectives!

At some point...if he really didn't know you have to ask...Why the hell didn't you know??? Stop playing golf and ask somebody maybe??? Maybe skip a round or two and find out what the IRS has been up to???

And, as far as the IRS scandal goes...Why the Fuck does the tsy inspector general take that information on June 29, 2011 to the IRS an arm of The Administration...instead of to Congress??? Why is that the protocol?
"Oh, we've caught you fucking up...fix it and then make sure you tell Congress about it".

Those are all good questions. I'd offer one explanation - let's revisit that "green lantern of leadership" theory. Rather than deal openly and honestly, with mutual respect to reach compromise, Obama chooses to discredit and browbeat his opposition. And I think we are seeing that this philosophy permeates his administration. So when you leave integrity at the door when you punch-in, it becomes a case where Obama doesn't want to know because of plausible deniability.

Remember during the election when Obama made some comment about not being able to change Washington from within (a striking admission and 180 from his 2008 campaign)? I think it's becoming clear that this administration decided to play by its own rules, and that also explains why he's always telling us about how transparent they are and badgering people for questioning his integrity while being heavy-handed with the media.

In the end, maybe the answer is quite simple. This is an administration that has created a culture, enhanced by divisive rhetoric, to trample opposition and push an agenda by any means necessary. Tyranny is a very strong word and I won't use it, but this has the appearance of a siloed approach such that the underhanded tactics used won't bring down the administration if found out. Sort of a "you don't want to know how I do what I do, Mr. President".

Benghazi is incompetence and lies to hide the fact. Worse is the AP and IRS where there is deliberate attempt at wrongdoing.


+1 to gut and boatshoes on their last posts.

gut;1442728 wrote:Those are all good questions. I'd offer one explanation - let's revisit that "green lantern of leadership" theory. Rather than deal openly and honestly, with mutual respect to reach compromise, Obama chooses to discredit and browbeat his opposition. And I think we are seeing that this philosophy permeates his administration. So when you leave integrity at the door when you punch-in, it becomes a case where Obama doesn't want to know because of plausible deniability.

Remember during the election when Obama made some comment about not being able to change Washington from within (a striking admission and 180 from his 2008 campaign)? I think it's becoming clear that this administration decided to play by its own rules, and that also explains why he's always telling us about how transparent they are and badgering people for questioning his integrity while being heavy-handed with the media.

In the end, maybe the answer is quite simple. This is an administration that has created a culture, enhanced by divisive rhetoric, to trample opposition and push an agenda by any means necessary. Tyranny is a very strong word and I won't use it, but this has the appearance of a siloed approach such that the underhanded tactics used won't bring down the administration if found out. Sort of a "you don't want to know how I do what I do, Mr. President".

True leadership requires three elements:

1. It must communicate a clear visionand a commitment to its realization.
2. It must mobilize and inspire others to action.
3. It must produce results.

I would say KB1 is 0'fer on these items....

It's all about silencing critics and controlling the message. All 3 incidents have that pretty clearly in common. I didn't notice it or perhaps look for it most of the first 4 years, but this is Chicago Politics and Community Organizing on a national scale. I think these strong-arm tactics are partly why he fails even at leading his own party.

Gotta go with the AP wiretap as #1. I'm really hoping that this is a wake-up call for the Obama-loving MSM. Probably not.

#2 Benghazi ineptitude.

#3 IRS harassment of conservative groups.

Obama= Coach Reno
State Deprt, IRS = the two rapist.
American People =The Young lady.

Defend them now?
I dare you too!

Shane Falco;1443109 wrote:Obama= Coach Reno
State Deprt, IRS = the two rapist.
American People =The Young lady.

Defend them now?
I dare you too!

So the people are 5% to blame!

Belly35;1442636 wrote:Benghazi .. American died and Hillary and Obama incompentency demostrated and the continues cover-up means this goes deep into the Obama administration of failure. Plus this cover-up was on the heel of an election which makes this situation "politcal fruad" to the American people

This.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/16/no-choice-gop-congressman-cites-national-security-defends-doj-investigation-of-ap-video/

That damn Obama