I know baseball pretty well but am not on a stickler on knowing the rules frontwards and backwards.

Anyways.....batter running to 1st and umpire says the first baseman pulled her foot (she did not but what did I care lol)....SAFE was the call. When the runner came back to get signals I told her she was lucky the ump blew it and she laughed and said she never touched the base at all.....next inning I go talk to the ump (I knew him) and told him she never touched the base running by and he says he was pretty sure that she was still safe because she passed the plane of the base? He was adamant about it. To me it sounds like the most ridiculous call ever....but I've been wrong before.

Ironman92;1426388 wrote:I know baseball pretty well but am not on a stickler on knowing the rules frontwards and backwards.

Anyways.....batter running to 1st and umpire says the first baseman pulled her foot (she did not but what did I care lol)....SAFE was the call. When the runner came back to get signals I told her she was lucky the ump blew it and she laughed and said she never touched the base at all.....next inning I go talk to the ump (I knew him) and told him she never touched the base running by and he says he was pretty sure that she was still safe because she passed the plane of the base? He was adamant about it. To me it sounds like the most ridiculous call ever....but I've been wrong before.

Yeah you have to touch the base.

Where's sonofanump.....is there something to what he was saying? I mean he called her safe because the 1st baseman was not touching the base....but it's ok for the runner not to? Why not fly around the bases and cross all the planes to avoid hitting a base wrong or studder-stepping?

I dont know the rules, but ummmmm, you gotta touch the base. IMPOSSIBLE to make a bang-bang call without having to be on the base. I mean, its hard enough, not touching makes it impossible lol

Laley23;1426421 wrote:I dont know the rules, but ummmmm, you gotta touch the base. IMPOSSIBLE to make a bang-bang call without having to be on the base. I mean, its hard enough, not touching makes it impossible lol

I sure wasn't going to argue with him as he gave us calls all night.....but man I was astounded he was saying those words.

The plane of the base, with the requirement that you literally have to be next to the base, may be a rule in some younger leagues where there's concern of collisions. That's how it was for me in my 9-10 year old league.

What age group did this happen with?

In real baseball, you have to touch the base. And stay on the base outside of first. Now, I don't know all the douchey protection rules people have because their 10 year old is a ***** though.

Edit: I've been drinking so the fuck do I know?

Also, you said she. So I assume softball? Dont they have the second 1st base? Maybe something with those rules...who knows?

It was varsity softball (sorry) and no runners base was in play......shouldn't have an effect on this. I just think he was head-shaking wrong, but he was so adamant that it was a new rule this year I doubted common sense.

lhslep134;1426430 wrote:The plane of the base, with the requirement that you literally have to be next to the base, may be a rule in some younger leagues where there's concern of collisions. That's how it was for me in my 9-10 year old league.

What age group did this happen with?

It is not like that for any of the first several ages from coach's pitch on.

Ironman92;1426388 wrote:I know baseball pretty well but am not on a stickler on knowing the rules frontwards and backwards.

Anyways.....batter running to 1st and umpire says the first baseman pulled her foot (she did not but what did I care lol)....SAFE was the call. When the runner came back to get signals I told her she was lucky the ump blew it and she laughed and said she never touched the base at all.....next inning I go talk to the ump (I knew him) and told him she never touched the base running by and he says he was pretty sure that she was still safe because she passed the plane of the base? He was adamant about it. To me it sounds like the most ridiculous call ever....but I've been wrong before.

The umpire was correct. In order for her to be out the fielder had to be in possesion of the ball on the base. Now if she would have reached second, she would have been out with a proper appeal at first. Make sense? There is a casebook play, if I have time, I will find and post.

That is what I was going to say.

Her not touching first, would not actually be a violation until she was to reach 2nd base safely, which then not touching first could've resulted in an overturned call.

Curious, did she end up coming around to score or reaching 2nd, at least?

You guys are saying that the runner can run passed first base without touching it and is safe even if the first basemen recovers and touches first?

hasbeen;1426648 wrote:You guys are saying that the runner can run passed first base without touching it and is safe even if the first basemen recovers and touches first?

If the ump doesn't see the runner miss the base, yes.

"The umpire was correct."

But for the wrong reason. I'm not aware of any situation where a runner can cross the plane of first base or otherwise not touching it and be awarded the base unless there is an instance of fielder's interference - which doesn't seem to be the case in the OP's scenario.

wildcats20;1426652 wrote:If the ump doesn't see the runner miss the base, yes.

That wasn't the case. Umpire said the runner went over the plane or whatever.

This is why it is tough for one ump to handle a game. It would be a difficult call for a 1st base umpire to notice both players missing the base.

Ump 1 calls the play safe
Ump 2 sees the runner not touch the base, but does not overrule

If the runner then gets advanced safely to 2nd, they could appeal that first base was not achieved, and if the other team appeals, they could rule the runner out.

I'm by no means an expert, I've only umped high school level games and lower. However, typically if I see another ump make a possible mistake on "his call", I'm not going to bring it up or correct him if there is no argument from the opposing team. Doing so kills your whole crews credibility the rest of the game...

"Ump 1 calls the play safe
Ump 2 sees the runner not touch the base, but does not overrule"

This is what is interesting, how does the ump overrule a safe call if the runner was neither safe nor out prior to the call? Isn't the play still going forward if not for the "safe" call. Agree with you that I don't see how ump 2 can overrule.

Well technically, he's "out" if he never touches the base. In that case, the defender would've had possession of the ball and touched the base before the runner did (as the runner never did at all). So calling him safe would be the incorrect call. Everyone would be focusing on the throw and the runner and which occurred first...not necessarily the foot hitting the bag, so it probably went unnoticed by either team or the first base ump. If I'm the ump at 3rd or 2nd though, and I clearly see the bag was missed, instead of going over and reversing the call, I'm going to let it go and then only weigh in if an appeal was made. With an appeal, the calling umpire at first is going to likely defer to the other umpires due to the basis of the appeal (foot on the base or not, not if the throw beat the runner).

On a side note, this type of stuff makes baseball the most unique sport in-terms of strategy and officiating/referreeing/unpiring. At least IMO. Contrary to what most know me for, baseball is THE best sport!

Agreed re the call, would need to go on appeal.

Not sure I agree if baseball is the best sport, but certainly the most complicated and difficult to coach. I'm quite glad I've only coached basketball and track. Not sure I'd have the patience for this.

Isn't the entire purpose of the double wide first base bag in softball so that you can touch the base and avoid collisions (as someone brought up collisions above)?

A few things...

There was not a double base.

The runner went on to 2nd when the next batter hit a fielder's choice and the next batter singled and knocked her in.

Is it not impossible to run to 1st base and not cross the plane before touching the base? Unless you scoot your foot and kick it.

If it is a rule it's the dumbest ever.

Weird it wasn't a double bag. Almost every softball game I've played (I guess unless you're playing on a dual field) they have them. I get annoyed, especially in work leagues and stuff when the umpires constantly get on the players for not making sure they run over the outer portion of it. It's funny, every other damn type of baseball has survived without it...

Azubuike24;1427084 wrote:Weird it wasn't a double bag. Almost every softball game I've played (I guess unless you're playing on a dual field) they have them. I get annoyed, especially in work leagues and stuff when the umpires constantly get on the players for not making sure they run over the outer portion of it. It's funny, every other damn type of baseball has survived without it...

During our season we play on 12-15 different fields and only a few have them.....they are stupid. Teach the runner how to run and teach the 1st baseman where to put their feet.