Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Mar 7, 2013 6:55pm
Almost all of them. Coaching basketball, baseball, football nowadays requires more patience and a greater understanding of how to teach the basics to the most difficult concepts within that sport....why?.....because kids do not meet up and play outside and it's even pretty rare to see at recess.
Sport-wise golf is difficult to teach because many like to work on too many things. KISS works well with golf and most other sports with beginners.
Coaching fast pitch softball to learning girls is difficult. It's a slow and often painful process.
Sport-wise golf is difficult to teach because many like to work on too many things. KISS works well with golf and most other sports with beginners.
Coaching fast pitch softball to learning girls is difficult. It's a slow and often painful process.
Fly4Fun
Posts: 7,730
Mar 7, 2013 7:42pm
Pretty much every sport begins in kindergarten unless there is a dangerous element to it or there isn't the requisite strength necessary to perform. I don't think that argument necessarily illustrates what would be difficult to teach.ccrunner609;1402293 wrote:if baseball and softball and wrestling were so difficult, then how do those millions of youth sport kids ever learn how to do it?
Any sport that starts in kindergarten cant be that tough
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Tiernan
Posts: 13,021
Mar 7, 2013 8:01pm
Passing and catching a lacrosse ball on the run while another player is wailing on the kid with a stick. BTW...Jim Brown once said lacrosse is much harder than football.
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vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Mar 7, 2013 8:32pm
Golf.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 8:45pm
That first paragraph is spot on. I know around here, Richmond Dale and Londonderry both had basketball courts, and we got together all the time to play, as most kids could just walk to the courts. Now the school is all consolidated in the middle of a cornfield, and kids just don't get together and play anymore. It definitely shows, as Southeastern used to be a basketball power, and has struggled recently.Ironman92;1402270 wrote:Almost all of them. Coaching basketball, baseball, football nowadays requires more patience and a greater understanding of how to teach the basics to the most difficult concepts within that sport....why?.....because kids do not meet up and play outside and it's even pretty rare to see at recess.
Sport-wise golf is difficult to teach because many like to work on too many things. KISS works well with golf and most other sports with beginners.
Coaching fast pitch softball to learning girls is difficult. It's a slow and often painful process.
Also, I've coached 8U and 10U girls fastpitch, and it is very tough. The basics like hitting, throwing, catching, and fielding are fairly simple, but it's everything else like backing up, cut offs, covering bases, bunt defense, relay throws, etc... that make it difficult.
Tiger2003
Posts: 15,421
Mar 7, 2013 8:52pm
Cross Country.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 8:54pm
Wait, what's the criteria here?
Are we talking about perfecting technique, in which case wrestling has to be up there.
Or are we talking developing skill, in which case baseball & basketball are probably up there.
Or are we talking about the synchronization, and plays, with team sports such as basketball, soccer, hockey, etc...?
I may have to go with gymnastics. You've got the issue of endurance with a routine, and technique is probably as tough as any...But you have the added obstacle of even having the athletic ability to do a lot of the moves.
I'm going with diving because it's the one sport I can think of that you can't just start any 5-yr old on, because they have to first be able to swim and then also get comfortable just going off the board.
Are we talking about perfecting technique, in which case wrestling has to be up there.
Or are we talking developing skill, in which case baseball & basketball are probably up there.
Or are we talking about the synchronization, and plays, with team sports such as basketball, soccer, hockey, etc...?
I may have to go with gymnastics. You've got the issue of endurance with a routine, and technique is probably as tough as any...But you have the added obstacle of even having the athletic ability to do a lot of the moves.
I'm going with diving because it's the one sport I can think of that you can't just start any 5-yr old on, because they have to first be able to swim and then also get comfortable just going off the board.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 9:00pm
But you can make similar arguments for almost any team sport. I don't see any of that remotely as difficult as teaching kids to properly play a zone defense, or 11 guys executing a football play.se-alum;1402346 wrote:... but it's everything else like backing up, cut offs, covering bases, bunt defense, relay throws, etc... that make it difficult.
Although I'd agree, from a coaching perspective, team sports are probably harder because of that added element. And in football, more than others, you have to take into account the skill of all 11 to choose plays they are best able to execute.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 9:26pm
I find football pretty easy, because for one, you know what you're supposed to do when they play starts. In baseball/softball the kids have to know all the different scenarios that could happen when the ball is hit. I find it much more difficult to say to a kid, "when the ball is hit here, you do this, but if the ball goes there, you do this, and if the ball goes out there, you do this". In football, you say we're going to play a cover 2, and then that's what you do.gut;1402355 wrote:But you can make similar arguments for almost any team sport. I don't see any of that remotely as difficult as teaching kids to properly play a zone defense, or 11 guys executing a football play.
Although I'd agree, from a coaching perspective, team sports are probably harder because of that added element. And in football, more than others, you have to take into account the skill of all 11 to choose plays they are best able to execute.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 9:54pm
You're taking all of the reading and play breakdown out of playing defense - if it's a run you do this, if it's a pass you do that...but watch out for this, this and this.se-alum;1402359 wrote:In football, you say we're going to play a cover 2, and then that's what you do.
And what you described above is no different than a "play", you've even described it that way - ball goes here, do this...ball goes there, do that.
Even if I grant you that, it's still far more complicated to properly play a zone defense in basketball, because now it not only depends on where the players are and where the ball is, but it changes based on the specific player (i.e. can't sag on the 3-pt shooter).
As for baseball, I didn't think it was that complicated when I played. And there's the added fact you can get away with far less than 100% correct fundamental play all the time. Blowing an assignment in football or basketball are far less forgiving.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 10:05pm
Teaching a zone defense in basketball is one of the easiest things to coach. I've done it, and it's much easier.gut;1402369 wrote:You're taking all of the reading and play breakdown out of playing defense - if it's a run you do this, if it's a pass you do that...but watch out for this, this and this.
And what you described above is no different than a "play", you've even described it that way - ball goes here, do this...ball goes there, do that.
Even if I grant you that, it's still far more complicated to properly play a zone defense in basketball, because now it not only depends on where the players are and where the ball is, but it changes based on the specific player (i.e. can't sag on the 3-pt shooter).
As for baseball, I didn't think it was that complicated when I played. And there's the added fact you can get away with far less than 100% correct fundamental play all the time. Blowing an assignment in football or basketball are far less forgiving.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 10:16pm
I'll take your word for it. I never thought it was remotely difficult to know where the throw goes, where the cut-off man needs to be, and who & where to back-up - especially with coaches barking it out during the play.se-alum;1402375 wrote:Teaching a zone defense in basketball is one of the easiest things to coach. I've done it, and it's much easier.
I'd suggest your standard for technical perfection in the zone defense is not remotely on par with what you demand in baseball.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 10:29pm
You ever tried to get 10 eight year old girls or 9 eight year old boys to do what they are supposed to do when a ball is in play? It's incredibly difficult. For instance in basketball, you put the kids in a zone defense, and they know that's what they need to do, in baseball/softball there's many more scenarios for the kids to understand on any given play.gut;1402382 wrote:I'll take your word for it. I never thought it was remotely difficult to know where the throw goes, where the cut-off man needs to be, and who & where to back-up - especially with coaches barking it out during the play.
I'd suggest your standard for technical perfection in the zone defense is not remotely on par with what you demand in baseball.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 7, 2013 10:30pm
I thought you coached Jr High for some reason. More power to you, and reps for volunteering your time for the youth without having a kid. Youth is tough to teach. A lot of kids who imo are way too young to start wrestling. When I reffed youth tourneys, I honestly felt like I did more teaching than the coaches lol. A lot of lost little kids out there.justincredible;1402237 wrote:I coach youth wrestling and depending on the kid it can be ridiculously frustrating. The really young one's have no idea what they are doing and just roll around on the mat hugging each other for the most part.
High school level for me or bust, and those kids still aren't easy to teach. Wrestling is a very difficult sport to explain the intricacies.
SMH, is this guy serious?ccrunner609;1402293 wrote:if baseball and softball and wrestling were so difficult, then how do those millions of youth sport kids ever learn how to do it?
Any sport that starts in kindergarten cant be that tough
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Mar 7, 2013 10:30pm
ccrunner609;1402383 wrote:yeah...teaching a kid to be tough is way harder then teaching any skill in any sport.
Not really....I had 3 completely uncompetitive "princesses" help lead my XC team to the regionals. Just pretty much "not quitting" turned them into being tough....and they are tough now. They were happy to keep improving from 7th grade on and just stayed with it and by 9th grade they were tough.
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Mar 7, 2013 10:32pm
se-alum;1402395 wrote:You ever tried to get 10 eight year old girls or 9 eight year old boys to do what they are supposed to do when a ball is in play? It's incredibly difficult. For instance in basketball, you put the kids in a zone defense, and they know that's what they need to do, in baseball/softball there's many more scenarios for the kids to understand on any given play.
I always taught every kid every position (throughout several practices) and it really helps when the RF knows what the 2nd baseman is trying to do...
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 7, 2013 10:33pm
LOL, you say this, but question how it is tough to coach wrestling? Nice fail.ccrunner609;1402383 wrote:yeah...teaching a kid to be tough is way harder then teaching any skill in any sport.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 10:39pm
I will say this, no matter the sport, aggressiveness is the hardest thing to teach a kid.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 10:41pm
Completely disagree. Like I said, you don't seem to hold the same standard of perfection for the zone defense. Plus you seem to be ignoring the fact that there is more than one zone defense and each is played differently, which also changes based on the match-ups the other team presents.se-alum;1402395 wrote:... in baseball/softball there's many more scenarios for the kids to understand on any given play.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 10:47pm
Teaching a zone defense is not hard...at all. Whether it be a 2-3, 3-2, 1-3-1, diamond and 1, or a box and one, they are pretty simple concepts. If I say we're starting out in a 1-3-1, the kids know to get back and get into a 1-3-1 defense. I'm not sure why you think it's that difficult. Also, I'm not talking about being perfect at something, I'm talking about simply knowing what has to be done.gut;1402410 wrote:Completely disagree. Like I said, you don't seem to hold the same standard of perfection for the zone defense. Plus you seem to be ignoring the fact that there is more than one zone defense and each is played differently, which also changes based on the match-ups the other team presents.
ytownfootball
Posts: 6,978
Mar 7, 2013 10:53pm
Teaching a kid to "release the Kraken" is nearly impossible. Very few times have I ever seen a "timid" kid do a 180 in this regard. You either have it or you don't.se-alum;1402407 wrote:I will say this, no matter the sport, aggressiveness is the hardest thing to teach a kid.
Baseball is difficult for younger kids because of the rules and complexity of the game. There are a lot of things that you take for granted that young kids simply don't know like running to 1st base instead of third and stopping when you get there. Lead offs, stealing, bunts, cuttoff men, backing up a throw to second or third and who is supposed to do it...a lot of shit. For a team to be good or at least pass as a "team" 9 kids have to have a basic understanding and that's tough to get thru at a young age.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Mar 7, 2013 11:00pm
Base running is something I hadn't even brought up yet, but is tough for kids to grasp. Going half way on a pop up, not running into a tag, tagging up, staying on the base when you don't have to advance. These aren't easy things for a young kid to grasp.ytownfootball;1402423 wrote:Teaching a kid to "release the Kraken" is nearly impossible. Very few times have I ever seen a "timid" kid do a 180 in this regard. You either have it or you don't.
Baseball is difficult for younger kids because of the rules and complexity of the game. There are a lot of things that you take for granted that young kids simply don't know like running to 1st base instead of third and stopping when you get there. Lead offs, stealing, bunts, cuttoff men, backing up a throw to second or third and who is supposed to do it...a lot of shit. For a team to be good or at least pass as a "team" 9 kids have to have a basic understanding and that's tough to get thru at a young age.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 11:03pm
Because when I played it was far easier to do the things you talked about in baseball than it was to be in the right position in zone defense. I don't get why you think it's so much harder to play a sloppy zone defense than it is to throw to the cut-off man.se-alum;1402418 wrote:I'm not sure why you think it's that difficult.
LOL, yeah, the kids know to get into a 1-3-1. I'd guess your 9 baseball kids generally know where to start out in the field.
I just don't see a major distinction of knowing where to position yourself based on the ball and where the other offensive players are vs. knowing where to position yourself on the baseball field as the play unfolds.
ytownfootball
Posts: 6,978
Mar 7, 2013 11:07pm
Yeah, like I said it's the complexity of it, the skills part is fairly basic, kinda. Stop a grounder, catch a fly ball, it's what to do with it once you've done that that is difficult to teach. Hitting a round ball with a round bat is hard lol, more skill than education, but teaching a kid what to expect (later on) is tough too.se-alum;1402427 wrote:Base running is something I hadn't even brought up yet, but is tough for kids to grasp. Going half way on a pop up, not running into a tag, tagging up, staying on the base when you don't have to advance. These aren't easy things for a young kid to grasp.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 7, 2013 11:10pm
True, but you DO have a 1st and 3rd base coach to tell them.se-alum;1402427 wrote:Base running is something I hadn't even brought up yet, but is tough for kids to grasp. Going half way on a pop up, not running into a tag, tagging up, staying on the base when you don't have to advance. These aren't easy things for a young kid to grasp.
There must be some differences in the kids you have for basketball and baseball, because the only kids that really struggled with this when I played either had rocks in their head or more often just never paid attention, either from lack of interest or focus.