http://finance.yahoo.com/news/should-you-renounce-your-citizenship-144048875.html

"...
Ready to Tear Up Your Passport?
According to a 2012 study published by the Research Institute of Industrial Economics that examined the mobility of billionaires over the past two decades, “70% [of those billionaires] have migrated from higher to lower capital gains tax country … One-third of the billionaires that moved went to small countries defined as ‘tax havens,’” including Switzerland, Bahamas and Singapore...."

More and more U.S. citizens are simply renouncing their citizenship.

As a country, we try to confiscate more and more of the highly productive's earnings, and when they take logical steps to counter the theft, they're the bad guys in the eyes of the room temperature IQ crowd.

I don't blame them at all. If I were a billionaire I'd GTFO of here, too.

I don't think I'd pick singapore though.

http://voices.yahoo.com/singapore-laws-know-trip-3393998.html

more on singapore

http://www.orientexpat.com/singapore/laws

Singapore does have the death sentence and it is used for narcotics offences.

Driving while drunk could get you 10 years in prison

sucks for Tiernan

Racial harmony is carefully promoted. Racial slurs, such as those you might hear in football chants could actually wind you up in jail, or getting caned.

Ok, this isn't Singapore but it cracked me up

Indonesia ... The penalty for masturbation is decapitation.

http://www.orientexpat.com/forum/18511-laws-all-tourists-should-know-in-thailand-singapore-indonesia-india/

I never thought I'd say this, but if we had the opportunity we'd stay in Singapore the rest of our lives. If you can get used to the climate (it is humid here) it is a SE Asian paradise - except for the cost.

A reasonable condo apartment is going to run at least S$7,000 (around US$5,400)/month and a car permit is now S$90,000, on top of the cost of the car itself (which is why Lamborghini's biggest market is Sing, if you are paying that much for a permit, might as well have a super expensive car).

That said, taxis are cheap and plentiful. You can take a taxi or car service to work and back everyday and not even think about owning a car. It really doesn't matter, nor do the "laws." Unless you plan on doing drugs or overthrow the government there is no police presence whatsoever. Crime is practically non-existent.

And also, the women are off the chart ridiculously beautiful. Singapore is where all the models from China, Philippines, Malaysia, etc. move to....and they don't wear much clothing due to the climate. There's a woman at our condo (from Korea) who I swear is the most beautiful woman that's walked the planet earth - it makes you want to slap Jennifer Aniston. She likes to wear heels at our pool and I can't get "Mr. Night" from Kenny Loggins out of my head.

Negative is that it is a long and expensive flight to the U.S.

FatHobbit;1389251 wrote:more on singapore

http://www.orientexpat.com/singapore/laws





sucks for Tiernan

LOL!

[LEFT]Driving while drunk could get you 10 years in prison! Don't drink and drive, it really is a serious offence here.Homosexual acts may lead to imprisonment. Kissing between men, for example, is illegal.There are very strict laws in place that keep Singapore the squeaky clean place it is. The following are prohibited... Smoking in public, chewing gum, spitting in public, littering, jaywalking. Failure to observe these laws will result in stiff fines.The fine for forgetting to flush the toilet in a public convenience is S$500.Racial harmony is carefully promoted. Racial slurs, such as those you might hear in football chants could actually wind you up in jail, or getting caned.If you have a balcony or garden, be aware that if you have flower pots, or anywhere that collects water and mosquito larvae subsequently breed, you risk being fined as a result.


No reason to ever drive drunk, you shouldn't be driving at all unless you are permanent resident or a millionaire.

There are lots of gay bars in the Holland Village area. It isn't enforced at all.

You can chew gum, you just can't purchase it. People smoke in public all of the time. The bus stops have ashtrays. That's a public area. Even better there are no open container laws. I once had a conversation with one of our neighborhood cops and put my beer down on his prowler. You can walk up and down Orchard Road drinking a beer. Try doing that in the U.S.

Never seen any sign about jaywalking, or spitting. I spit all the time when I'm running, and jaywalk on a daily basis. No reason to litter since there are garbage bins every 5 blocks or so. Still some of the Indian/Bangladesh workers aren't the most sanitary with their food/drink.

The balcony bit is true to keep mosquitos out (SE Asian jungle, hello?), but that isn't an issue unless you go away for a month at a time and don't have someone take care of your plants. Or be like us and don't have plants in the first place.[/LEFT]

manhattan, how many countries have you worked in? You're probably the most experienced traveler on the OC (in terms of foreign countries). Which one was the worst?

If you count Hong Kong and Australia - 5.

U.S., UK, Sing and the two mentioned above since I go there all of the time, but our place is in Sing until April 7.

Worst place I've been is South Africa, which is a shame since it is so beautiful but crime is rampant and if you are a Westerner you have to live in a compound and travel with guards in Jo-berg. Just a crazy place.

We turned down a "permanent" move to Sydney 3 times. Australia is a great place to visit and they are very friendly towards tourists. But it isn't an easy country to develop relationships, even for Australians.

If a Westerner has to move outside of North America/Eurozone, by far the Singapore is the best place to go. It is like the U.S., only with more Asians. Hong Kong is in second place but that's more for younger people with the nightlife, and the smog and lack of sun can be depressing. We would also move to Istanbul (very much a growing economy) but it would have to be the right situation. I don't think we could live in China (any city)/Tokyo/Seoul/Taipei - language and culture barrier would be too much for us. We have a lot of friends that have lived in Shanghai - they laugh at the scenes in "Skyfall" (great movie by the way) - Shanghai looks like that maybe 4 or 5 times a year. The rest of the time the smog covers up the skyline.

My foreign work experience was limited to Canada, Mexico and Brazil. The city in Brazil where I lived and worked was really nice. I would return there in a heartbeat.

We have a good friend from Brasilia who often invites us over for Sunday brunches with her friends from Brazil - great people, a bit nervous about the Olympics. Never been there. Farthest south I've been in the western hemisphere is Costa Rica. Funny, I've never visited France, Russia, Ireland, Vietnam, or Greece - some of the main American tourist spots (we'll likely go to Ireland and France when we move to the UK)....yet have been to Brunei, UAE and Indonesia, not exactly hot tourist destinations.

My time in Brazil was spent in Cruzeiro, midway between Sao Paulo and Rio. What surprised me was how much more modern it was than where I was in Mexico (Pachuca and Sahagun). Clean water, great food and low on crime. The people there were wonderful as well. If you like beef and the Brazilian style of barbecue, you'll love Brazil.

FatHobbit;1389244 wrote:I don't think I'd pick singapore though.

http://voices.yahoo.com/singapore-laws-know-trip-3393998.html

At least Singapore doesn't outlaw 16oz drinks and styrofoam containers, but NY city doesn't outlaw/condem, Homosexual acts, Kissing between men, littering, jaywalking, Racial slurs at Football games!!!

Which city would you choose to live in?

I could have started a new thread about this, but I figured that I would just bump this since it's relevant.

I was talking to a few business associates of mine, and it occurred to us that, in the last year, three people have moved out of the US because of the taxes and the intrusiveness of government, and more than five in the last 18 months.

Anyone else seeing this happen among some of the people around them?

Manhattan Buckeye;1389576 wrote:If you count Hong Kong and Australia - 5.

U.S., UK, Sing and the two mentioned above since I go there all of the time, but our place is in Sing until April 7.

Worst place I've been is South Africa, which is a shame since it is so beautiful but crime is rampant and if you are a Westerner you have to live in a compound and travel with guards in Jo-berg. Just a crazy place.

We turned down a "permanent" move to Sydney 3 times. Australia is a great place to visit and they are very friendly towards tourists. But it isn't an easy country to develop relationships, even for Australians.

If a Westerner has to move outside of North America/Eurozone, by far the Singapore is the best place to go. It is like the U.S., only with more Asians. Hong Kong is in second place but that's more for younger people with the nightlife, and the smog and lack of sun can be depressing. We would also move to Istanbul (very much a growing economy) but it would have to be the right situation. I don't think we could live in China (any city)/Tokyo/Seoul/Taipei - language and culture barrier would be too much for us. We have a lot of friends that have lived in Shanghai - they laugh at the scenes in "Skyfall" (great movie by the way) - Shanghai looks like that maybe 4 or 5 times a year. The rest of the time the smog covers up the skyline.

Very true. Never lived in Sydney, but have lived in Melbourne for a fixed-period on an IT contract, and your view of the country is spot on. Amazing place, great people, but still can be difficult. New Zealand is very similar.

I don't have the money for Hong Kong, or Singapore, for that matter. Paying $2,000 a month for an apartment in Wellington is plenty lol.

If i had a bit more money, would probably make the move to Hong Kong, have enjoyed visits there, but don't think i could live how i wanted there given my current career.

O-Trap;1548658 wrote:I could have started a new thread about this, but I figured that I would just bump this since it's relevant.

I was talking to a few business associates of mine, and it occurred to us that, in the last year, three people have moved out of the US because of the taxes and the intrusiveness of government, and more than five in the last 18 months.

Anyone else seeing this happen among some of the people around them?

I've had plenty of friends move out the US, both to places like Singapore/Hong Kong and also Europe. Different strokes for different folks, and more power to them.

But, i also know plenty of folks who from Australia/NZ who are looking to move, and have moved, to the United States for one reason or another, so i guess they even each other out.

cbus4life;1548664 wrote:I've had plenty of friends move out the US, both to places like Singapore/Hong Kong and also Europe. Different strokes for different folks, and more power to them.

But, i also know plenty of folks who from Australia/NZ who are looking to move, and have moved, to the United States for one reason or another, so i guess they even each other out.

Naturally, I'm not suggesting the US doesn't have plenty yet to offer, and the taxes here are still not as bad as they are in other parts of the world, but what worried me was that the guys I mentioned all list the tax burden as being one of the main reasons for their emigration (if not the top reason, itself).

Granted, I don't blame them. I just don't like that as a trend, and I can't imagine it being healthy.

O-Trap;1548802 wrote:Naturally, I'm not suggesting the US doesn't have plenty yet to offer, and the taxes here are still not as bad as they are in other parts of the world, but what worried me was that the guys I mentioned all list the tax burden as being one of the main reasons for their emigration (if not the top reason, itself).

Granted, I don't blame them. I just don't like that as a trend, and I can't imagine it being healthy.

Although it may be their top reason, I wonder if they already were looking to move overseas just for the fact they could actually afford to?

Glory Days;1549335 wrote:Although it may be their top reason, I wonder if they already were looking to move overseas just for the fact they could actually afford to?

At least two of them still spend as much time in the US as possible. They own home here, and they spend just enough time overseas to not pay taxes here.

O-Trap;1548802 wrote:Naturally, I'm not suggesting the US doesn't have plenty yet to offer, and the taxes here are still not as bad as they are in other parts of the world, but what worried me was that the guys I mentioned all list the tax burden as being one of the main reasons for their emigration (if not the top reason, itself).

Granted, I don't blame them. I just don't like that as a trend, and I can't imagine it being healthy.

All true. As much as we bitch about taxes and tax increases, the United States still boasts one of the world's lowest personal tax rates.

However, that doesn't mean we should roll over and let the Feds keep raising taxes and spending us into oblivion.

I know one couple that has left, and at least two others that are looking into it... but as much as we think it is all related to 'taxes', economic freedom is only one aspect of it. If you consider why people emmigrated to the U.S., it was to escape government oppression of some kind....economic, religious, political, etc and to build a future for their posterity. Certainly the trends occurring today are alarming....just consider NYC and Bloomberg.....some people are just saying GTFO of my life!.

HitsRus;1550171 wrote:I know one couple that has left, and at least two others that are looking into it... but as much as we think it is all related to 'taxes', economic freedom is only one aspect of it. If you consider why people emmigrated to the U.S., it was to escape government oppression of some kind....economic, religious, political, etc and to build a future for their posterity. Certainly the trends occurring today are alarming....just consider NYC and Bloomberg.....some people are just saying GTFO of my life!.

That's true also. The level of government regulation & intrusion in private affairs (HSA, IRS, TSA, etc., etc.), the growth of political correctness, bastardization of the Bill of Rights, nearly a decade of anemic economic growth, illegal immigration, and many other issues are definitely making some Americans wonder if life in the United States is still a good value.

believer;1550352 wrote:That's true also. The level of government regulation & intrusion in private affairs (HSA, IRS, TSA, etc., etc.), the growth of political correctness, bastardization of the Bill of Rights, nearly a decade of anemic economic growth, illegal immigration, and many other issues are definitely making some Americans wonder if life in the United States is still a good value.

Truth. A couple of the friends mentioned above went to a country with a lot of the things individualists strongly dislike (stricter gun laws, public healthcare, high taxes), but the government there doesn't have so many agencies invading the privacy of every one of its citizens, so while the laws are restrictive in ideology, they aren't in function.

justincredible;1389233 wrote:I don't blame them at all. If I were a billionaire I'd GTFO of here, too.

We all know that once this site IPO is released you will be a billionaire.

believer;1550064 wrote:All true. As much as we bitch about taxes and tax increases, the United States still boasts one of the world's lowest personal tax rates.

However, that doesn't mean we should roll over and let the Feds keep raising taxes and spending us into oblivion.

While this may be true, I think what pisses people off is how the money we are taxed gets misused. At least that is why I get pissed. Plus, we get taxed in other ways. So many fees, permits, etc. that really aren't necessary. Why should one need a marriage, hunting or fishing license? Maybe there is a logical reason, but i don't know what it is.