In looking at some of these pre seed's records many seemed to be incorrect. Does not a forfeit count as a loss ? I hope this gets squared away before the tournament actual seeding

Booger Boy;1388556 wrote:In looking at some of these pre seed's records many seemed to be incorrect. Does not a forfeit count as a loss ? I hope this gets squared away before the tournament actual seeding

Yes it does.

It is what it is;1388609 wrote:Yes it does.

In doing some more research on some of these kids it's clear they are incorrect. Why would coaches risk getting kids disqualified over this.

Booger Boy;1388556 wrote:In looking at some of these pre seed's records many seemed to be incorrect. Does not a forfeit count as a loss ? I hope this gets squared away before the tournament actual seeding

A forfeit does not count as a loss. You have to step on the mat for a win or loss.

Power half;1388637 wrote:A forfeit does not count as a loss. You have to step on the mat for a win or loss.

I believe that if you enter a tournament and say get hurt, your remaining matches are forfeits. Say a pool tournament, wrestle first match and get injured, the rest of your matches are loses.

Nobody is going to get disqualified over this. In the grand scheme of things, who cares anyways.

kennypowers;1388642 wrote:I believe that if you enter a tournament and say get hurt, your remaining matches are forfeits. Say a pool tournament, wrestle first match and get injured, the rest of your matches are loses.

Nobody is going to get disqualified over this. In the grand scheme of things, who cares anyways.

if you're referring to mistakes in the seed nominations, i don't think those were official, so i agree, no one is going to get DQ'ed based on that!! If a coach tries something shady at the real meeting, then they'll probably get called out on it and it will get corrected there. If not, then I suppose someone could drop the hammer at weigh-ins? don't know what would happen then? i'm sure the hosting AD would be annoyed about havnig to re-draw a bracket... or is there another coach's vote? who knows!?! lol!

(that said, i think i agree with you on one point booger boy. at least one record jumped out at me as being not right if they do count tourney forfeits...)

kennypowers;1388642 wrote:I believe that if you enter a tournament and say get hurt, your remaining matches are forfeits. Say a pool tournament, wrestle first match and get injured, the rest of your matches are loses.

Nobody is going to get disqualified over this. In the grand scheme of things, who cares anyways.

I always thought they did,but I guess I was wrong. I could see it effecting a wrestlers seed as some of these guys have multiple forfeits in a couple of tournaments.But if it does not count as a loss I guess not

Power half;1388637 wrote:A forfeit does not count as a loss. You have to step on the mat for a win or loss.

If you step on the scale and get put on a line in a bracket, then forfeit (sickness, injury, scared, whatever...), those are losses on your record. Your coach may not count them, but they are losses nonetheless.

Booger Boy;1388652 wrote:I always thought they did,but I guess I was wrong. I could see it effecting a wrestlers seed as some of these guys have multiple forfeits in a couple of tournaments.But if it does not count as a loss I guess not

I believe you're right and it does count as a loss. My guess though is that coaches rarely count them as such on kids records.

It is what it is;1388653 wrote:If you step on the scale and get put on a line in a bracket, then forfeit (sickness, injury, scared, whatever...), those are losses on your record. Your coach may not count them, but they are losses nonetheless.

No there not losses, you have to step on the mat to receive a win by forfeit or loss.

Power half;1388657 wrote:No there not losses, you have to step on the mat to receive a win by forfeit or loss.

I know our coach always put a forfeit as loss on the wrestlers record in the past

Once a wrestler weigh-ins for a tournament and then defaults a match for any reason that is counted as a loss.

Sad. It doesn't have to be that difficult.

Underrated;1388669 wrote:Once a wrestler weigh-ins for a tournament and then defaults a match for any reason that is counted as a loss.

So if this is correct, from what I can tell it takes a couple of the #1 seeds to a 2 or a 3 seed. Could make a big difference in a sectional tournament

I wonder the same thing with some kids that have 40+ matches when their schedule reflects less than 20 points. Are they counting byes as wins?

It is what it is, matches are won on the mat not on paper

Booger Boy;1388676 wrote:So if this is correct, from what I can tell it takes a couple of the #1 seeds to a 2 or a 3 seed. Could make a big difference in a sectional tournament

remember, the seeds here aren't based on the records you see on the seed nomination sheets. could it work out that way? sure. however, i believe those technically are only good for seeing who gets seeded -- only 50%+ wrestlers -- and for breaking ties. i believe the first criteria is head to head, then common opponents, etc. i know on one of the coaches' information letters (must have been on the watkins page becsue i think they're the only ones that posted it) there was the list of criteria that CD coaches are supposed to use.

Edited to add new info:

From the info sheet:

The following will be considered for purposes of seeding a wrestler:
- winning record only (0-0 is not a winning record, must have more than 5 matches)
- record against common opponents
- returning champion or runner-up
- exceptional record against acknowledged strong opposition
- best overall record.

nykc;1388679 wrote:I wonder the same thing with some kids that have 40+ matches

did you see the 32 from canal? i think he had something like 51 matches! and before sectionals! that's crazy!!! And what's even crazier is I'm pretty sure canal didn't compete in the state duals.

Yeah its insane! So a kid with 40-50 some matches can get seeded higher than a dq with a good record because according to the criteria dq status is meaningless.

nykc;1388728 wrote:Yeah its insane! So a kid with 40-50 some matches can get seeded higher than a dq with a good record because according to the criteria dq status is meaningless.

If that's the way the coaches vote.

So I suposse if you weigh-in more then one kid for a weight class at a dual and only one steps out the other kid gets a loss? Or does this rule only reflect tournaments???? From what I know/understand you must step on the mat to take a win or a loss. If I'm wrong please find it in the rules and post it as I'm sure you'll enlighten ALOT of coaches!

maddog140;1388738 wrote:So I suposse if you weigh-in more then one kid for a weight class at a dual and only one steps out the other kid gets a loss? Or does this rule only reflect tournaments???? From what I know/understand you must step on the mat to take a win or a loss. If I'm wrong please find it in the rules and post it as I'm sure you'll enlighten ALOT of coaches!

+1^

Power half;1388637 wrote:A forfeit does not count as a loss. You have to step on the mat for a win or loss.

That is not correct....

Nobody is going to lose a seed because of a couple of forfeit losses. The preliminary seed nominations are just that....think of it as preliminary seeding info.

The Central District seeds based on the coaches' vote......all the things mentioned can/should be factored into the equation. However, just because a kid's winning percentage is below another doesn't mean in any way that he "has" to be seeded lower. In this district it doesn't matter.....just the vote.

Now if you are talking about one of the other district boards that utilize criteria......then that is a completely different matter. Central District......no

bump_and_run;1388725 wrote:did you see the 32 from canal? i think he had something like 51 matches! and before sectionals! that's crazy!!! And what's even crazier is I'm pretty sure canal didn't compete in the state duals.

Take a look at CW's schedule.....almost all tournaments (2 of them were 2 day tourneys).....very easy to pile up the matches if you stay healthy

Dad4Sports;1388786 wrote:Take a look at CW's schedule.....almost all tournaments (2 of them were 2 day tourneys).....very easy to pile up the matches if you stay healthy

Don't get me wrong, I applaud their ability to get the most out of the scheduling rules and offer mad props to a young man who can stay healthy through all that. My "crazy" observation was more commentary on how much this sport has changed since, say, the early '80s when 30 matches a season was a lot.