BR1986FB;1366045 wrote:Chicken & egg...Belichick's legacy is tied to Brady's. Without Brady, Belichick doesn't have nearly the success.

Put Peyton with Belichick and they win 10 super bowls. Prove me wrong.

Peyton is 9-11 in the playoffs. Tied with most losses all-time.

The losses thing is a dumb argument. He would still have TEN loses had they won the SB vs the Saints.

The lack of wins is something of note, but again, taking into consideration he has had a bye half his career and you are facing the top 10% of the league in every game. He hasnt padded his wins versus wild-card teams. Would he be looked at better had he lost in the same round every year but had 3 less regular season wins 5 times and thus got 5 more playoff wins? Probably, and it would be stupid.

The two years he had a complete team, and a defense that was very good he won a SB and then this year...and ironically the defense blew it in an epic fashion. Peyton took some bad teams in Indy to great heights (think LeBron with Cavs...but not quite that bad). He was able to mask a lot of flaws that management then didnt feel the need to address. One of his less talented teams, imo, during the run of 12 wins a year he took to the SB and lost.

All this said, just watch Peyton go out like Elway did in Denver with a SB Trophy his last 2 seasons haha. That would be pretty crazy.

Football is a team sport. Otherwise, Terry Bradshaw's 4 rings would place him higher up on the list of all time QBs. Wins are incredibly important, but playoff success is outrageously team oriented.

Also, Bill Belicheck is one of greatest coaches of all time so that affects my opinion as well. I mean he got a team with Matt Cassel to 10 wins.

Those factors, along with Manning's cerebral and intellectual mastery of the position, break a tie between Manning and Brady for me. Gotta say Manning's the GOAT.

Just throwing this out here...

Tim ***** has won more playoff games with Denver than Peyton Manning has.

Top 5 of all time. Not even debatable. Eli isn't close either so lets just put an end to that garbage.

Rotinaj;1366122 wrote:Top 5 of all time. Not even debatable. Eli isn't close either so lets just put an end to that garbage.

This.

Peyton is basically Dan Marino (ie: amazing statistical performances in the regular season). With actual postseason success. At least with Marino, there is the somewhat legit argument that asks if his legacy gets diminished because he never won a Super Bowl. Manning might not have had a huge amount of postseason success (at least in comparison to his regular season success), but he has gotten a ring in his life, at least.

Marino>All

robj55;1366138 wrote:Marino>All

Best QB without a ring, easily.

ernest_t_bass;1366141 wrote:Best QB without a ring, easily.

Ken Anderson disagrees!

GoChiefs;1366144 wrote:Ken Anderson disagrees!

Bitch, plz.

ernest_t_bass;1366141 wrote:Best QB without a ring, easily.

Fran disagrees.

Peyton is #5 in my book.

Heretic;1366135 wrote:This.

Peyton is basically Dan Marino (ie: amazing statistical performances in the regular season). With actual postseason success. At least with Marino, there is the somewhat legit argument that asks if his legacy gets diminished because he never won a Super Bowl. Manning might not have had a huge amount of postseason success (at least in comparison to his regular season success), but he has gotten a ring in his life, at least.

This is a great comparison. The whole best qb debate is made difficult because there are different types of qbs. You have your manning and marino. Then there's brady and montana: great qbs with a fistfull of rings, but not tops on the passing charts. Then there's elway and young, excellent qbs with added mobility. And these six don't even include farve or johnny u. The best qb debate is like a countdown of the best classic rock songs of all time: same songs every year and consistent top 5, but a different winner each time.

Fly4Fun;1365997 wrote:For everyone in the Eli > Peyton camp because of Peyton's losses in the playoffs, what about those times that the Giants just failed to even make the playoffs all together?

Agreed. Eli is not as good as his older brother.

If PM was QB for the Giants instead of EM, NY would have won more sb's than the Pat's with TB.

Ironman92;1366258 wrote:Fran disagrees.

Bitch, plz.

Ironman92;1366260 wrote:Peyton is #5 in my book.

Who are your 1st 4?

Top 5 of all time...I would say

1. RG3
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Brady

wes_mantooth;1366359 wrote:Top 5 of all time...I would say

1. RG3
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Brady

Brady over Weeden? GTFO.

CLEconomically Speaking;1366298 wrote:This is a great comparison. The whole best qb debate is made difficult because there are different types of qbs. You have your manning and marino. Then there's brady and montana: great qbs with a fistfull of rings, but not tops on the passing charts. Then there's elway and young, excellent qbs with added mobility. And these six don't even include farve or johnny u. The best qb debate is like a countdown of the best classic rock songs of all time: same songs every year and consistent top 5, but a different winner each time.

Sorry, but any QB who didn't play in the 2000's is irrelevant. The NFL is so much deeper and tougher; those old timers would ride the bench on the Chiefs if they played now.

wes_mantooth;1366359 wrote:Top 5 of all time...I would say

1. RG3
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Brady

lol @ #1

sleeper;1366367 wrote:Sorry, but any QB who didn't play in the 2000's is irrelevant. The NFL is so much deeper and tougher; those old timers would ride the bench on the Chiefs if they played now.

I agree mostly, although...I think Marino is the the exception. He had a cannon

wes_mantooth;1366394 wrote:I agree mostly, although...I think Marino is the the exception. He had a cannon

He'd be broken in half after 1 or 2 sacks. The QB of today is a lot bigger than the past; Marino is a twig and would last 2-3 years max if he played today.

sleeper;1366440 wrote:He'd be broken in half after 1 or 2 sacks. The QB of today is a lot bigger than the past; Marino is a twig and would last 2-3 years max if he played today.

he was 6'4" 230lbs

manning is 6'5" 230.

wes_mantooth;1366448 wrote:he was 6'4" 230lbs of fat

manning is 6'5" 230 of muscle

Fixed.