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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 15, 2012 1:04pm
That will be decided by the people collectively...over time.isadore;1343763 wrote:,,, Now lets do it with another blight on our society, guns.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 1:19pm
the will of the people in our representative democracy.Con_Alma;1343766 wrote:That will be decided by the people collectively...over time.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 15, 2012 1:21pm
I think that's what I said, yes.isadore;1343782 wrote:the will of the people in our representative democracy.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Dec 15, 2012 1:26pm
Also worth noting...these other wealthy countries who've done a good job of curbing gun violence are more secular than the United States and are exposed to just as much of the supposedly culturally degrading media flowing out of the United States as we are!
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 15, 2012 1:29pm
...yet are void of the historical influence on the legislative positions taken and lived by our nation for hundreds of years.BoatShoes;1343788 wrote:Also worth noting...these other wealthy countries who've done a good job of curbing gun violence are more secular than the United States and are exposed to just as much of the supposedly culturally degrading media flowing out of the United States as we are!
It's the combination of all of the many things noted that lend to the uniquely American culture we have.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Dec 15, 2012 1:31pm
Fire arms share similar historical significance in Australia where they were used in the open ranges of country to defend against the Aborigines, hunting and game, etc. A lot like their historical significance in traditional western America. Australia appropriately evolved from their tradition and increased gun regulation in the wake of persistent mass murders at the hands of guns in 1996. They have had zero since and their country and their people are undoubtedly better for it and still unbelievably and significantly free.Con_Alma;1343748 wrote:We do not when considering the influence of historical significance of the role guns have played in the lives of the people for centuries and how that has permeated the many different capital opportunities that exist.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 15, 2012 1:35pm
Australia is very different when considering the magnitude of capitalistic success and the military might of the U.S. when you combine all of the factors of that lending to the culture that is distinctly U.S. there is little that can be used as an example of what the people might want and choose to do effectively.BoatShoes;1343799 wrote:Fire arms share similar historical significance in Australia where they were used in the open ranges of country to defend against the Aborigines, hunting and game, etc. A lot like their historical significance in traditional western America. Australia appropriately evolved from their tradition and increased gun regulation in the wake of persistent mass murders at the hands of guns in 1996. They have had zero since and their country and their people are undoubtedly better for it and still unbelievably and significantly free.
In the end it doesn't matter what others have done nor chosen to do . The people will ultimately decide what we want and do.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 1:37pm
as soon as they start putting more value on their children's lives rather than the fetishtic desire for guns of fanatical minority.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 15, 2012 1:39pm
That may very well be the tipping point. It's not, however, today.isadore;1343803 wrote:as soon as they start putting more value on their children's lives rather than the fetishtic desire for guns of fanatical minority.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 1:40pm
not quiteCon_Alma;1343784 wrote:I think that's what I said, yes.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 1:43pm
it is a true shame that 20 childrens lives have been sacrificed because of the selfish desire of the wayne lapierre, nra and their acolytes in this country and at this site.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 2:26pm
isadore;1343808 wrote:it is a true shame that 20 childrens lives have been sacrificed because of the selfish desire of the wayne lapierre, nra and their acolytes in this country and at this site.
Its a shame that you want to take away my right to protect myself in the event of one of these madmen trying to enter my home.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 2:30pm
gosh if he did not have a gun, even you might be able to handle him or at least call the police.GoChiefs;1343835 wrote:Its a shame that you want to take away my right to protect myself in the event of one of these madmen trying to enter my home.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 2:32pm
isadore;1343838 wrote:gosh if he did not have a gun, even you might be able to handle him or at least call the police.
Gosh, you're an idiot if you think gun laws are going to keep guns away from criminals.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 2:34pm
in many other democratic societies they seem to do a pretty good job of it.GoChiefs;1343839 wrote:Gosh, you're an idiot if you think gun laws are going to keep guns away from criminals.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 2:37pm
isadore;1343841 wrote:in many other democratic societies they seem to do a pretty good job of it.
And in many other democratic societies, they don't.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 2:40pm
so then it would be a good idea for us to follow the example of those who do.GoChiefs;1343842 wrote:And in many other democratic societies, they don't.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 2:49pm
isadore;1343843 wrote:so then it would be a good idea for us to follow the example of those who do.
It would be a good idea to wake up and realize that no matter what you do, guns aren't going anywhere, and the only ones effected by gun control laws are law abiding citizens, not the criminals that are causing the problems. That idea obviously goes over your head.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 2:55pm
you can mouth that cliche again and again, it does not make it true. the truth is other democratic societies are able too restrict guns and limit gun deaths.GoChiefs;1343847 wrote:It would be a good idea to wake up and realize that no matter what you do, guns aren't going anywhere, and the only ones effected by gun control laws are law abiding citizens, not the criminals that are causing the problems. That idea obviously goes over your head.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 2:59pm
isadore;1343851 wrote:you can mouth that cliche again and again, it does not make it true. the truth is other democratic societies are able too restrict guns and limit gun deaths.
Common sense isn't cliche.
What is cliche is that you think gun controls work. For every instance you show that they do, I can give you two that show they don't.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Dec 15, 2012 3:07pm
They keep guns out of the hands of criminals in the United Kingdom....a country very similar to us but more secular, more accommodating of gays, atheism, decadence, narcissism, instant gratification, non-traditional families and welfarism than the United States.GoChiefs;1343839 wrote:Gosh, you're an idiot if you think gun laws are going to keep guns away from criminals.
Yet, more people are killed in America by a gun every day than in a year in the UK.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Dec 15, 2012 3:09pm
Please proceed.GoChiefs;1343853 wrote:Common sense isn't cliche.
What is cliche is that you think gun controls work. For every instance you show that they do, I can give you two that show they don't.
Find me a counter-example that is comparable to this great success.
Australia suffered 13 gun massacres in 18 years and then banned semi-automatic weapons in 1996 and have had zero since.
Where in the industrialized world has a gun control law lead to an increase in gun massacres because only criminals have guns???
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Dec 15, 2012 3:10pm
I'm inclined to believe that because it sounds intuitive but that hasn't been born out by real world experience.GoChiefs;1343847 wrote:It would be a good idea to wake up and realize that no matter what you do, guns aren't going anywhere, and the only ones effected by gun control laws are law abiding citizens, not the criminals that are causing the problems. That idea obviously goes over your head.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Dec 15, 2012 3:11pm
gosh a ruddies as you just admitted some work and those of course would be possible ones for us to follow.GoChiefs;1343853 wrote:Common sense isn't cliche.
What is cliche is that you think gun controls work. For every instance you show that they do, I can give you two that show they don't.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Dec 15, 2012 3:20pm
Arguably some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, yet, still had the Cumbria shootings.
Thats all I need to say. Proves my point exactly. If they want the guns, they will get them.
Thats all I need to say. Proves my point exactly. If they want the guns, they will get them.