Petition was delivered to OHSAA on Friday, vote in May?

http://www.cleveland.com/timstake/index.ssf/2012/12/proposed_ohsaa_referendum_agai.html#incart_river

Same thing, different year.

Well, it's different in that the past 2 years they tried keeping them together and tweaking enrollment numbers. This time they're going to try to just blow the whole thing apart.

ts1227;1335906 wrote:Well, it's different in that the past 2 years they tried keeping them together and tweaking enrollment numbers. This time they're going to try to just blow the whole thing apart.

Yea, but I'm sure it will be the same end result.

Blow it up.

At some point the juicebox crowd will get their way. Hopefully not this time.

Hope it doesnt happen.

Even though we have a losing record in teh finals to private schools, 2-3, I dont want to see a split.

Played for Orrville, live in Orrville, my boys go to Orrville. I lost to private schools in the tourney as many times as I beat them and I now am a fan that has watched Orrville lose to the private schools and beat them just the same.... Keep it the way it is and tell these whining public schools to get better!!!

There's no question that private schools - in particular Catholic-based private schools - have clearly dominated the the OHSAA football playoff system. To deny that is simply dishonest.

There's no way a team like - say - Division 5 Youngstown Ursuline, for example, can consistently field playoff caliber teams...and even qualify for the playoff's with 5-5 records when most public schools need 9-1 or even 10-0 records to get a playoff bid...and then continue on to the state Final 4 or better year-over-year without a little talent "wink wink" going on. I bet if you ask half the players on teams like Mooney and Ursuline if they are Catholic many would respond with, "What's a Catholic? I came to play here because they have great football program.

In all seriousness there are plenty of public schools in Ohio that have developed great programs with great coaches who can easily compete with the private schools. Ironton, Coldwater, Clinton-Massie, etc. are classic examples.

I don't think the OHSAA should split public and private schools in the playoff's. However, just don't tell me that Catholic-based schools aren't engaging in at least a little soft-recruiting to maintain talent levels.

Here are my thoughts:

http://www.pitmanstats.com/2012/12/04/competitive-imbalance-rears-its-ugly-head-again/

believer;1336682 wrote:There's no question that private schools - in particular Catholic-based private schools - have clearly dominated the the OHSAA football playoff system. To deny that is simply dishonest.

There's no way a team like - say - Division 5 Youngstown Ursuline, for example, can consistently field playoff caliber teams...and even qualify for the playoff's with 5-5 records when most public schools need 9-1 or even 10-0 records to get a playoff bid...and then continue on to the state Final 4 or better year-over-year without a little talent "wink wink" going on.

There's no way a team like - say - Division 6 Marion Local, for example, can consistently field playoff caliber teams...and even qualify for the playoff's with 5-5 records when most public schools need 9-1 or even 10-0 records to get a playoff bid...and then continue on to the state Final 4 or better year-over-year without a little talent "wink wink" going on.

*Marion Local made the playoffs in 2009 with a 5-5 record and got to the state semi-finals. Since 2000 Marion Local has six state titles, one state runner-up and another final four appearance. But, there's no way.

MSML gets some students from open enrollment...

Ohh the humanity Come on all that's needed is a 1.5 multiplier since Catholic schools do have the benefit of drawing across entire cities while say Eastwood has Pemberville and Luckey. Obviously there's also your schools like Cardinal Stritch, Toledo Christian, Sandusky St Mary that will have almost no chance of competing since they already don't essentially

Classyposter58;1337097 wrote:Obviously there's also your schools like Cardinal Stritch, Toledo Christian, Sandusky St Mary that will have almost no chance of competing since they already don't essentially

Point well taken but it doesn't negate the fact that Catholic-based schools represent a small percentage of all OHSAA schools yet easily win - by far - the largest percentage of all state championships across all 6 divisions.

Either there are special magical football vitamins in the wine and communion wafers or the talent decks are being artificially stacked.

Hypothetical conversation...

Mr. Wink Wink: "Hey Kid. You're a mighty fine football player. You go to Podunk Central don't you? You ever consider going to school at Cardinal Miraculous?"
Podunk Kid: "Well, sorta but..."
Mr. Wink Wink: "Listen Kid, who does Podunk play next week, East Nothing High? heh heh Cardinal Miraculous is playing Cleveland Big Time next week. How many Division 1 scouts will be sitting in the stands during the East Nothing game? None....NADA. But you can bet the ranch scouts from Ahia State and Notre Dame will be in the stands at Miraculous Stadium Friday night. Think about it! heh heh"
Podunk Kid: "Yeah you're right, but I ain't even Catholic and my momma can't afford no $10,000 a year in tuition."
Mr. Wink Wink: "Now don't you worry 'bout that. When the other kids are in religion class, you can come to the coach's office to chat and study game films...heh heh. As far as that tuition thingy goes, don't you worry 'bout that. The Lord works in mysterious ways. I'm sure your momma will come up with the cash somehow...heh heh."

This thing is ridiculous. These whiny schools need to focus on getting better, not getting even. What kid wants to celebrate being the "public school champ"? And while everyone's angst is over the big name Catholic schools, what about the podunk little Christian schools out there? You know, the ones that have lousy athletic programs and usually get trampled. They get lumped in, too? I think the solution has already been found - open enrollment for public schools. Produce a product kids want to play for. Have solid academics and a quality athletic program like the Catholic schools do. Kids will come. Don't punish them for being good.

Every year this comes up, and every year I say the same thing. It's getting old.

I almost want them to blow it up just so we don't have to hear about it anymore.

ernest_t_bass;1337079 wrote:MSML gets some students from open enrollment...

I will have to ask someone from there. I know they allow open enrollment for adjacent districts only. In that area kids dont seem to use open enrollment to go and play sports much. The kids you see on the varsity rosters for a team like Marion local, Coldwter, St Henry and the likes have been there their whole lives and if ya take out the JH team photo you will see them!
I think Coldwater had one kid on teh varsity who was open enrollment. A senior, and he had came over in 6th or 7th grade.

You def dont see what ya do at the private schools where an athlete transfers from one to another in HS.

thavoice;1337359 wrote:I will have to ask someone from there. I know they allow open enrollment for adjacent districts only. In that area kids dont seem to use open enrollment to go and play sports much. The kids you see on the varsity rosters for a team like Marion local, Coldwter, St Henry and the likes have been there their whole lives and if ya take out the JH team photo you will see them!
I think Coldwater had one kid on teh varsity who was open enrollment. A senior, and he had came over in 6th or 7th grade.

You def dont see what ya do at the private schools where an athlete transfers from one to another in HS.

Let me rephrase. MSML, Coldwater, etc, have kids there from open enrollment, for various reasons, and not just during their HS years. I saw the numbers for Coldwater, the number they get from Celina district, and it's pretty big.

...Depending on how the vote goes, if they vote to separate the public vs private into two separate playoffs then the privates will opt out & leave the OHSAA (which can't afford to loose the $$$$$$$ that many member schools deposit into their coffers)...IMO.

4cards;1337370 wrote:...Depending on how the vote goes, if they vote to separate the public vs private into two separate playoffs then the privates will opt out & leave the OHSAA (which can't afford to loose that many member schools)...IMO.

Not only that, but if they think private schools recruit now, they have no idea what would be coming once the private schools leave and don't have to abide by the OHSAA rules.

jaco;1337290 wrote:This thing is ridiculous. These whiny schools need to focus on getting better, not getting even. What kid wants to celebrate being the "public school champ"? And while everyone's angst is over the big name Catholic schools, what about the podunk little Christian schools out there? You know, the ones that have lousy athletic programs and usually get trampled. They get lumped in, too? I think the solution has already been found - open enrollment for public schools. Produce a product kids want to play for. Have solid academics and a quality athletic program like the Catholic schools do. Kids will come. Don't punish them for being good.

Why is this the argument? Why not, "what kid wants to celebrate being the private school champ"?

skank;1337566 wrote:Why is this the argument? Why not, "what kid wants to celebrate being the private school champ"?

Why not indeed. Almost every kid wants to play all comers, and if they aren't good enough to win, so be it. It's the adults with the problems.

I think in most cases it's not...."not being good enough".

skank;1337573 wrote:I think in most cases it's not...."not being good enough".

As a fellow Massillon fan, I am in complete agreement. We have gone to what some consider extreme means to use our resources to establish the most talented team in the state.