gut;1335315 wrote:That episode felt strangely unsatisfying. Gillian better not pull through that.

And Richard may be very skilled, but it was so cliche how none of the thugs could shoot straight.

I knew it wasn't going to be as good as the 2nd to last episode. I still thought it was a very good episode though. That season was some of the best TV ever done.

I'm assuming season 4 is going to be Nucky v. Arnold Rothstein. Should be great.

Definitely not as good as last year's finale episode. I agree it was a bit of a let down considering the ending to the previous episode which got me pretty excited for this episode but still pretty solid. Would've liked to see more Capone and Chalky mayhem beyond just shooting up the cars on the street.

Richards shooting spree was awesome but the epidode as a whole was...eh.

I guess Rozetti being literally stabbed in the back was supposed to be some sort of symbolism or justice. And then the guy doing it says "sorry". Kind of ticked me of because he got way better than he deserved.

Also, the fact that he didn't snap Jillian's neck like a pretzel was out-of-character.


Nucky is very smart and manipulative, but Rothstein is at least his equal in that regard. Mickey Doyle screwed that up - no way Rothstein isn't going to smell a rat over getting 99% of the distillery. The dumbass didn't even try to negotiate a better deal.

gut;1335697 wrote:I guess Rozetti being literally stabbed in the back was supposed to be some sort of symbolism or justice. And then the guy doing it says "sorry". Kind of ticked me of because he got way better than he deserved.

I really wanted Gyp (spelling?) to go out via his belt fetish or have Nucky himself kill him like he killed Jimmy but I suppose that wouldn't have jived with Nucky apparently taking it down a notch as we go into the next season.

BoatShoes;1335699 wrote:I really wanted Gyp (spelling?) to go out via his belt fetish or have Nucky himself kill him like he killed Jimmy but I suppose that wouldn't have jived with Nucky apparently taking it down a notch as we go into the next season.

Along those same lines, did it make any sense for Nucky and Eli to go to the house alone? They knew Gyp could still have some guys, and I don't believe they knew Richard was going to go all Rambo. That seems like suicide to just casually saunter in. But I suppose he had actually convinced Gillian to do the deed, so was expecting to find Gyp already dead. Still would have left the potential to have to deal with Gyp's guys.

Richard Harrow playing real life Counter Strike to rescue Tommy might have resulted in the largest television-viewing boner I've ever had.

So perfectly set up. We see him last episode preparing his guns, then not a word from him until 40 minutes into the finale when he kicks open the door and unleashes hell. Same with Capone last week. They took nearly 3 seasons to set up the young Capone character so you viewed him as someone you could actually root for(rather than the monster typically portrayed on film) and it all paid off with his closing monologue 2 weeks ago.

I've heard people complain the pacing of the show is too slow, but it's the way they develop the characters and story lines that lead to payoffs like the last couple episodes. It's not 24.

James Gatz;1335748 wrote: I've heard people complain the pacing of the show is too slow, but it's the way they develop the characters and story lines that lead to payoffs like the last couple episodes. It's not 24.

Don't spoil this thread by even suggesting they could be comparable.

Good point about the character development of Al Capone. Although part of it was Capone was just an entry-level thug when we first met him. We've seen Nucky have to evolve to be Capone-like to maintain power, and we've similarly seen Capone rise because he already was, well, Capone.

I hope S4 focuses on Capone. I think Rothstein is toast, because he hasn't evolved as mentioned above. That's going to leave Capone and Nucky as the two kings to butt heads.

Also I got the sense that Richard is walking away from the life he dreamed of. I didn't really feel like he has any intention of returning to Tommy and his girlfriend. With nowhere to turn, I think that means he becomes one of Nucky's lieutenants.

gut;1335767 wrote:Also I got the sense that Richard is walking away from the life he dreamed of. I didn't really feel like he has any intention of returning to Tommy and his girlfriend. With nowhere to turn, I think that means he becomes one of Nucky's lieutenants.

Also important to note that Gillian, who according to Terrence Winter survived her heroin injection and will be in season 4, knows [roughly] who Julia is. Tough to imagine the crazy **** won't try and hunt down her grandson, and Julia would be a logical first place to look.

Winter also said the two main characters(outside of Nucky) in Season 4 will be Capone and Luciano. Which makes sense, as they are also the two most significant characters historically.

Likely a strategic mistake for Nucky to muscle out Rothstein. I'm guessing that Luciano moves in to fill the power void. I think historically it may have gone down a little different (Rothstein is killed for welching on a poker game), but the end result will be the same.

Rothstein won't last past the first episode or so, he's about to get hammered by the fed. Apparently he could only sit on his hands so long before a deal too good to be true came along and he jumped on it. Very unlike him, but the fact that nothing has been happening finally caught up to him. Big fish, big bait...I don't think Masseria is just going to accept his guys being shot up by Nucky's guys though.

bases_loaded;1335818 wrote:Rothstein won't last past the first episode or so, he's about to get hammered by the fed.

I don't think it goes down that way. In BE, to-date (and in real life), nobody got hooked by the Feds - they all go down for tax evasion. One possibility is I think that Rothstein is on the hook to Masseria for the money from that busted drug deal (because Luciano is his guy).

bases_loaded;1335818 wrote:I don't think Masseria is just going to accept his guys being shot up by Nucky's guys though.

One thing this show does great as though, is having new characters come in for a few episodes, and cutting them out if they aren't popular, and vice versa. I don't think Masseria impressed the audience enough to get another season, let alone be a main antagonist.

What I thought was stupid, was the fact Nucky and his brother drove the guy to kill Gyp. The guy could have very easily been like, "Hey, Gyp, Nucky and his brother are out there, lets blast em."

Thought that was very unrealistic.

I don't think it was unrealistic at all. That guy just had his life spared by a guy with real power. Gyp was alot of talk but was nothing without Masserias army, one guy just wiped out 2/3 of Gyp's "guys". Gyp was a great character though, but his time was up.

SportsAndLady;1335870 wrote:One thing this show does great as though, is having new characters come in for a few episodes, and cutting them out if they aren't popular, and vice versa. I don't think Masseria impressed the audience enough to get another season, let alone be a main antagonist.

What I thought was stupid, was the fact Nucky and his brother drove the guy to kill Gyp. The guy could have very easily been like, "Hey, Gyp, Nucky and his brother are out there, lets blast em."

Thought that was very unrealistic.

Add to that the two men that were with Gyp did nothing. I thought for sure they would do something, but nothing.

I do think Rothstein is toast next year. In history, he is killed in 1928.
Also, in 1924/ 25, Capone takes over for Torrio, so that may happen next season.

I hope the series can make its way to 1929-1930, where we see the Valentine's Day Massacre, the fall of Capone, and the meeting in Atlantic City that establishes the mob rules.

ptown_trojans_1;1335898 wrote:I hope the series can make its way to 1929-1930, where we see the Valentine's Day Massacre, the fall of Capone, and the meeting in Atlantic City that establishes the mob rules.

Was reading this the other day about the SVDM

Frank Gusenberg was still alive after the killers left the scene and was rushed to the hospital shortly after police arrived at the scene. When the doctors had Gusenberg stabilized, police tried to question him but when asked who shot him, he replied "Nobody shot me", despite having sustained fourteen bullet wounds.

According to Wikipedia, when Rothstein is on is deathbed he won't tell cops he it him...allegedly saying "you stick to your profession, I'll stick with mine" or something like that.

Anyway know what year BE is historically in, currently? I'm too lazy to look it up.

ptown_trojans_1;1335898 wrote:Add to that the two men that were with Gyp did nothing. I thought for sure they would do something, but nothing.

I do think Rothstein is toast next year. In history, he is killed in 1928.
Also, in 1924/ 25, Capone takes over for Torrio, so that may happen next season.

I hope the series can make its way to 1929-1930, where we see the Valentine's Day Massacre, the fall of Capone, and the meeting in Atlantic City that establishes the mob rules.

That's all pretty cool, but I think you might be ambitious.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BE is intended to be a work of fiction based rather loosely on historical fact. I think part of the reason they chose Nucky and NJ is he's a minor player in the prohibition era, relatively speaking. That gives them a lot of artistic license to mold their script.

Just saying I don't think this series will evolve to anything much beyond the scope of Nucky. If what you mention is addressed in the show, I wouldn't expect much more than a "did you hear" sort of thing.

Although it does seem hard to do this show and NOT devote at least an episode to the Valentine's Day Massacre. But I think this show going into S4 is already on borrowed time (HBO almost always seems to end series prematurely, usually for budget reasons).

SportsAndLady;1335870 wrote:What I thought was stupid, was the fact Nucky and his brother drove the guy to kill Gyp. The guy could have very easily been like, "Hey, Gyp, Nucky and his brother are out there, lets blast em.".

It's not as if any of them liked Gyp. Hell, he killed the one guy's brother with a shovel while he begged for his life. With Gyp, they were dead eventually, Rosetti made enemies of way too many people. Their only way to escape a death sentence(and even then, they still have to leave AC and NYC forever) was to make a deal with Nucky.

James Gatz;1336022 wrote:It's not as if any of them liked Gyp. Hell, he killed the one guy's brother with a shovel while he begged for his life. With Gyp, they were dead eventually, Rosetti made enemies of way too many people. Their only way to escape a death sentence(and even then, they still have to leave AC and NYC forever) was to make a deal with Nucky.

Yeah that's true. I don't know, just seemed like a risk they didn't really need to take while watching...but it makes sense that they would just say F it and off their "leader"

Would have been sweet if Nucky would have gotten out of the car and blown Gyp's head off. Lol

At first I thought the whole Gyp-finale was kind of hard to believe. But as was said, those guys had nothing left to go back to. What wasn't seen that was likely part of the deal was some cash for finishing the job. Rats on a sinking ship - might even have been hoping to get a job from Nucky at some point.

The other thing is, just in case they had any doubt about doing the deed, was Gyp talking about going to some podunk town and opening a speak. Just to make it crystal clear that Gyp was finished. So you going to shoot your way out of town, or just put a knife in Gyp? Probably why the other two just stood there.

gut;1336034 wrote:The other thing is, just in case they had any doubt about doing the deed, was Gyp talking about going to some podunk town and opening a speak. Just to make it crystal clear that Gyp was finished. So you going to shoot your way out of town, or just put a knife in Gyp? Probably why the other two just stood there.

I thought he was saying do what he was doing to Atlantic City, to a small town down south. "Start with a few speak easy's"

Could be wrong, that's just how I took it. I thought they were goin to let him do that, then make a return a few seasons later.

SportsAndLady;1336090 wrote:I thought he was saying do what he was doing to Atlantic City, to a small town down south. "Start with a few speak easy's"

Could be wrong, that's just how I took it. I thought they were goin to let him do that, then make a return a few seasons later.

Yeah he basically wanted to repeat what just didn't work, only on a small scale. He sold his men on his own delusions of power and now that it's failed he thinks he can repeat it. The definition of insanity and his guys have had it. I'm sure the other two guys were aware of the guy nucky sent coming, how else would he find them on a random beach?

Very interesting insight and analysis everybody!

With regard to Richard I think his Rambo rampage completes his transformation and, like Gut said, he will go on to work for Nucky or something. When Jimmy was alive, Jimmy was fully transformed from the war. He died out there. Richard, despite his deformity, I think, didn't want to quite accept that yet...he didn't want to be a monster...he longed for his sister, for a romance with Julia, a normal life. Every now and again you would see flashes like when he ripped his mask off while on top of Julia's father. I think when Gillian derided him for living in his fantasy world and his doing so nearly contributing to Tommy's corruption by other 'monsters' lead him to come to the conclusion that he is a 'monster' and that he has to just embrace it?

I also think Bases_Loaded makes a good point about Rothstein. The bait with the distillery was just too good to pass up that he didn't stay disciplined and it's going to bite him. Which is just great writing and poetic justice because it was what he scolded everybody else about all the time. I hope he doesn't go too early because he's one of my favorite characters. I think the actor portraying him does a fantastic job.

It'll be interesting to see Luciano's rise after getting swindeled.

As far as timeline goes, Season 3 was a couple of years after the end of season 2 so perhaps they will skip a few years into the future again.

I thought Margaret's character was more interesting in Seasons 1 and 2. I thought she was doing her best Skylar White impersonation this season and I didn't like it. It was like she's the vehicle through which the show explores all of the contemporary liberal women's issues and how bad it was for them during those times and yada yada rather than having her be the calculating smart character she was previously.

Yeah, some of the side "political" commentary just seems forced. Writers just can't resist inserting some social/political statements into their work. They've done ok with what Boat said earlier about the war transforming people, but it's getting tiresome with how the 3 vets they've showed us are all just shells of a human being.

And the Margaret thing with women's issues is really weak and hurts the show, IMO. Also, I think her getting an abortion (did I see that correctly?) is completely out of line with her character. On one hand they show he to be pretty religious, but where's the struggle over what to do with the baby? They kind of show that with her struggles to stay with Nucky, but then they have her ready to run-off with Owen.