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gut

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15,058 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:10 PM
"We've been on the road for 18 hours....I need a bath, some chow....then you and me sit down...talk about who dies...huh?"

Can't wait to see Capone bust out in Season 4. That actor has to have been chompin' on the bit for 3 seasons now, waiting... Every bit the sociopath that Gyp is, but somehow...more rational?


So I'm wondering if, or how, Nucky might leverage Carnegie's distillery. Maybe that's the deal cut with Capone.


Anyway, another great episode. Fantastic writing and some new depths of character for Nucky. Seeing the realization that he didn't even know if his servant had family...and the "I had no choice" shame of bringing Eli's son into it. And ow about all of Nucky's men selling out and/or abandoning him, while NONE of Chaulkie's guys took the money.
Nov 26, 2012 8:10pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:11 PM
On a side note, wasn't that one dude the guy Chaulkie's crew beat the fuck out of in jail? I must have forgotten how he came to run with Chaulkie's crew?
Nov 26, 2012 8:11pm
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SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:33 PM
By far my favorite episode of the show last night. Such an amazing show. I don't understand how people don't watch this show, I really don't.

Can't wait for the season finale.
Nov 26, 2012 8:33pm
M

MontyBrunswick

Nov 26, 2012 8:36 PM
gut;1329959 wrote:On a side note, wasn't that one dude the guy Chaulkie's crew beat the fuck out of in jail? I must have forgotten how he came to run with Chaulkie's crew?
It is. Basically, the guy got his ass beat because he was from out of town. He came to realize Chaulkie was the guy, and now works for him.
Nov 26, 2012 8:36pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:36 PM
Well, most people don't have HBO...

I can't believe what a bad ass Nucky has become. Started out just an accounting geek that didn't get his hands dirty.
Nov 26, 2012 8:36pm
M

MontyBrunswick

Nov 26, 2012 8:37 PM
gut;1329982 wrote:Well, most people don't have HBO...
I don't, I just pirate it.
Nov 26, 2012 8:37pm
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SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:44 PM
dlazz;1329983 wrote:I don't, I just pirate it.
Yup.

I didn't have it last year, still watched every episode
Nov 26, 2012 8:44pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 26, 2012 8:45 PM
dlazz;1329981 wrote:It is. Basically, the guy got his ass beat because he was from out of town. He came to realize Chaulkie was the guy, and now works for him.
Cool. Thanks for filling in
Nov 26, 2012 8:45pm
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ptown_trojans_1

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7,632 posts
Nov 26, 2012 10:23 PM
Awesome episode last night as well.
I think Richard also comes back and racks up a body count.
Can't wait for it.
Nov 26, 2012 10:23pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 26, 2012 11:29 PM
ptown_trojans_1;1330096 wrote:Awesome episode last night as well.
I think Richard also comes back and racks up a body count.
Can't wait for it.
Yeah, the easy solution is just to contract Richard to take out Gyp while Nucky is in hiding. But I'm not really sure Nucky can trust Richard.
Nov 26, 2012 11:29pm
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bases_loaded

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6,912 posts
Nov 27, 2012 9:41 AM
Richard is a psychopath, always has been cold blooded. Only two people have shown him love, Jimmy and now Julia. When Jimmy went missing Richard killed the butcher thinking it was him, now hes lost his home because of his love for Julia, we saw him arming up for what Im sure will be a bloodbath in his former home. I don't think Nucky and Richard are connected at all anymore, Nucky probably forgot Richard's existence.
Nov 27, 2012 9:41am
G

gut

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15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 10:17 AM
bases_loaded;1330266 wrote:Richard is a psychopath, always has been cold blooded.
Maybe, I hadn't viewed him like that. IMO, being a sniper has made him numb to death. But he kills out of fierce loyalty, not because he enjoys it. He's the only one in this show that seems to have any sort of code or morality (to Richard killing a scumbag is not immoral). And remember when Nucky asked him if it (killing) gets easier or you ever forget - Richard said no. So I have to disagree that Richard is cold-blooded - he doesn't kill without a good reason (but he was also a good soldier following orders, in case you want to go there).

Although I agree he will probably kill the hag to rescue Jimmy's son, and that probably means going through no less than half a dozen of Gyp's guys. Is that a psychopath or a sociopath, or something else? I don't really know the finer points of the definitions.
Nov 27, 2012 10:17am
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TedSheckler

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Nov 27, 2012 10:59 AM
bases_loaded;1330266 wrote:When Jimmy went missing Richard killed the butcher thinking it was him
No. Richard killed Manny Horvitz because he killed Angela. Remember Richard telling Nucky that he and his family are safe? Richard knew Nucky killed Jimmy. Richard told Nucky, "Jimmy was a soldier, he fought and he lost." So, richard got revenge on Manny because I think he had feelings for Andrea. He sat for her while she did a portrait of him. I think Richard will do anything for Julia and to protect Tommy, and that may include taking down Gyp's men and Gillian.
Nov 27, 2012 10:59am
G

gut

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15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 11:15 AM
TedSheckler;1330363 wrote:No. Richard killed Manny Horvitz because he killed Andrea. Remember Richard telling Nucky that he and his family are safe? Richard knew Nucky killed Jimmy. Richard told Nucky, "Jimmy was a soldier, he fought and he lost." So, richard got revenge on Manny because I think he had feelings for Andrea. He sat for her while she did a portrait of him. I think Richard will do anything for Julia and to protect Tommy, and that may include taking down Gyp's men and Gillian.
Forgot about that angle and line from Richard. I think you're right. Memory is a little foggy, but didn't that all start with Mickey Doyle bragging about killing Jimmy and Richard hearing it or getting wind of it? Can't remember why he let Mickey live, but I thought that's how Richard got on to Manny. Never made the connection that it was about killing Julia, but makes perfect sense.

Also to me shows why Richard isn't so cold-blooded - didn't he let Manny's wife live? Looked right at her and then walked away. I mean, the guy has a pretty unforgettable face.
Nov 27, 2012 11:15am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 11:18 AM
Didn't Richard make a promise to Jimmy to take care of Tommy? I think Richard knew about that meet with Nucky and wanted to go along, but Jimmy wouldn't let him? So the only conclusion one could make was he killed Manny to avenge Julia. Richard must have known Nucky doesn't operate that way, but still interesting he wouldn't hold Nucky accountable for who he sends to do a hit.
Nov 27, 2012 11:18am
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bases_loaded

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6,912 posts
Nov 27, 2012 11:34 AM
That all makes sense, great points. Love this show.
Nov 27, 2012 11:34am
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TedSheckler

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Nov 27, 2012 11:42 AM
gut;1330381 wrote:Memory is a little foggy, but didn't that all start with Mickey Doyle bragging about killing Jimmy and Richard hearing it or getting wind of it?
Mickey never bragged about killing Jimmy. Mickey sent a kid to Gillian's brothel to make a delivery. The kid told Richard that he wouldn't mess with Mickey because he was bragging that he killed Manny. After that, Richard was waiting at Mickey's house and caught him with his pants down. Then Richard dragged him to Nucky's office and that's when the "Jimmy was a soldier..." line happened.
gut;1330383 wrote:So the only conclusion one could make was he killed Manny to avenge Julia.
Not Julia, Angela. Julia is his girlfriend now.
Nov 27, 2012 11:42am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 11:52 AM
TedSheckler;1330408 wrote: Not Julia, Angela. Julia is his girlfriend now.
LOL, thanks for the correction. I can never keep names straight.
Nov 27, 2012 11:52am
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SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Nov 27, 2012 12:28 PM
Wait I'm terrible with names so help me understand this convo lol

Who is Julia vs Angela?
Nov 27, 2012 12:28pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 12:32 PM
SportsAndLady;1330454 wrote: Who is Julia vs Angela?
Julia is Richard's new gf. Angela was Jimmy's wife.
Nov 27, 2012 12:32pm
S

sjmvsfscs08

Senior Member

2,963 posts
Nov 27, 2012 12:34 PM
Julia is the drunk veteran's hot blonde girlfriend.

Angela is Jimmy's wife, who was a lesbian.

Right?
Nov 27, 2012 12:34pm
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TedSheckler

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Nov 27, 2012 1:12 PM
sjmvsfscs08;1330466 wrote:Julia is the drunk veteran's hot red-headed daughter.
FTFY.

Nov 27, 2012 1:12pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Nov 27, 2012 2:58 PM
Awesome show. Pumped for the final episode of the season. I think the analysis ITT of Richard's character is spot on. It seems to me is that one of the themes of the show between Jimmy and Richard is how they've lost their innocence because of the War. Remember before Nucky killed Jimmy he talked about how he was already dead. In that sense, Jimmy's death didn't require vengeance from Richard but the corruption/death of innocent's like Angela, Julia, Tommy (Jimmy's Son) does. Part of that goes to Gut's point about Richard having a higher moral code. Plenty of the other's kill in the show out of pure self-interest whereas Richard seems to kill out of a higher sense of justice.
Nov 27, 2012 2:58pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Nov 27, 2012 3:19 PM
^^^all good points.

One point of contention, however, was Jimmy was already plenty fucked up before he went to the war. His mother is a real gem. But it still fits with corruption of innocence when you consider her life.

I think you pretty much nailed the overarching theme of corruption of innocence. Even Nucky didn't start out violent - he was simply a businessman who's depths of corruption have traced that business. Really a pretty amazing transformation over a guy who killed his first person (directly) at the end of Season 2 and now can murder a kid in cold blood. Part of that may have been the betrayal from Jimmy, but prior to that no doubt Nucky sees himself in that kid and would have given him a job instead.
Nov 27, 2012 3:19pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Dec 3, 2012 12:46 AM
That episode felt strangely unsatisfying. Gillian better not pull through that.

And Richard may be very skilled, but it was so cliche how none of the thugs could shoot straight.
Dec 3, 2012 12:46am