3 linebackers

Player A

18 tackles for loss, 6 forced fumbles, 2 pass breakups, 10.5 sacks, 6.89 tackles per game, 1 INT

Player B

5.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 1.5 sacks, 8.91 tackles per game, 6 INT


Player C

17.5 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 11.5 sacks, 5.09 tackles per game, 0 int


All 3 linebackers have great shots of playing in a BCS game. Yet one is a Heisman candidate? pshhh

Crimson streak;1324756 wrote:I have never said te'o deserved the heisman. Te'o will be a top 5 pick but yet he's not better than shazier? I think he deserves to get an invite just because of the type of kid he is and the impact he has made, do I think he should win it? No

Te'o is a hell of a player, but I think Shazier is further along as a sophomore than Te'o was at the same point in his career. Shazier isn't eligible to be picked, so we have no idea what his draft status will be. I think we can come to the conclusion that they're both great players, but not Heisman winning players. Also, I don't think Te'o will be a top 5 pick, but most likely a top 10 guy.

LJ;1324693 wrote:The last d player who deserved it had 85 tackles, 32.5 negative plays, 11 pd's, and 26 hurries. He finished 4th. Neither of these guys are even close

The only problem with that is that Suh didn't play in 2012. 2012 sucks for candidates, thus we are having a conversation that 99/100 shouldn't even be an issue.

Jarvis Jones will get drafted higher than Te'o. Not a knock on Te'o, just the valuation of players who get sacks, which Te'o doesn't.

I think this thread does show just why defensive players don't get seriously considered for the Heisman.

You have a guy like Te'o, who's a dark horse contender, and on this thread there's an open comparison to a guy who's not mentioned in the mix from another school. Looking at pure stats, Shazier is better in most categories with Te'o having a lot of picks.

Which leads to the reasoning why Te'o is better revolving around "he has different responsibilities" and "he's the best player on a better defense than Shazier's". To me, that's when the argument for a person isn't particularly strong -- when it deals with the reasoning why comparable to generally lesser numbers are really superior due to other considerations...as opposed to simply having great numbers.

Heretic;1324910 wrote:I think this thread does show just why defensive players don't get seriously considered for the Heisman.

You have a guy like Te'o, who's a dark horse contender, and on this thread there's an open comparison to a guy who's not mentioned in the mix from another school. Looking at pure stats, Shazier is better in most categories with Te'o having a lot of picks.

Which leads to the reasoning why Te'o is better revolving around "he has different responsibilities" and "he's the best player on a better defense than Shazier's". To me, that's when the argument for a person isn't particularly strong -- when it deals with the reasoning why comparable to generally lesser numbers are really superior due to other considerations...as opposed to simply having great numbers.

Couldnt have said it better.

Pick6;1324912 wrote:Couldnt have said it better.

No shit. You aren't very bright.

lhslep134;1324880 wrote:3 linebackers

Player A

18 tackles for loss, 6 forced fumbles, 2 pass breakups, 10.5 sacks, 6.89 tackles per game, 1 INT

Player B

5.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 1.5 sacks, 8.91 tackles per game, 6 INT


Player C

17.5 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 11.5 sacks, 5.09 tackles per game, 0 int


All 3 linebackers have great shots of playing in a BCS game. Yet one is a Heisman candidate? pshhh

Give me A or C anyday.

WebFire;1324915 wrote:Give me A or C anyday.

A. Jarvis Jones

C. Anthony Barr (UCLA)

karen lotz;1324914 wrote:No ****. You aren't very bright.

Considering the source, quite hypocritical.

karen lotz;1324792 wrote:He's already done his part in the Heisman talk by jump starting Te'o's campaign. If Te'o does get an invite, Denard's impact will be on display quite a bit in NYC.

karen lotz;1324914 wrote:No shit. You aren't very bright.

lol'd

WebFire;1324915 wrote:Give me A or C anyday.

Yes sir, all day long.

lhslep134;1324880 wrote:3 linebackers

Player A

18 tackles for loss, 6 forced fumbles, 2 pass breakups, 10.5 sacks, 6.89 tackles per game, 1 INT

Player B

5.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 1.5 sacks, 8.91 tackles per game, 6 INT


Player C

17.5 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 4 pass breakups, 11.5 sacks, 5.09 tackles per game, 0 int


All 3 linebackers have great shots of playing in a BCS game. Yet one is a Heisman candidate? pshhh

But like I said there is a huge difference in a MLB and an olb is a 3-4 defense. Btw I would take Jarvis jones over anyone even though he is injured a lot.

Crimson streak;1324930 wrote:But like I said there is a huge difference in a MLB and an olb is a 3-4 defense.

Fine, here's a MLB's stats to show how good a MLB can be

121 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 3 passes defended, 2 forced fumbles, 16.5 tackles for loss

Those blow Teo's stats out of the water, and that was from a MLB in a 4-3. You might have heard of him before, AJ Hawk. Nowhere close to Heisman consideration.

lhslep134;1324948 wrote:Fine, here's a MLB's stats to show how good a MLB can be

121 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 3 passes defended, 2 forced fumbles, 16.5 tackles for loss

Those blow Teo's stats out of the water, and that was from a MLB in a 4-3. You might have heard of him before, AJ Hawk. Nowhere close to Heisman consideration.

Once again te'o plays a 3-4 MLB position not in a 4-3 where your MLB makes the most of your tackles. Some of you people don't know how to read

Crimson streak;1324951 wrote:Once again te'o plays a 3-4 MLB position not in a 4-3 where your MLB makes the most of your tackles. Some of you people don't know how to read

Okay that's fair, the AJ Hawk comparison isn't relevant then.

lhslep134;1324963 wrote:Okay that's fair, the AJ Hawk comparison isn't relevant then.

I think I do remember hawk being mentioned about the heisman at one point though

Crimson streak;1324975 wrote:I think I do remember hawk being mentioned about the heisman at one point though

I think you are remebering this "...Heisman Trophy candidate Brady Quinn is dating A.J. Hawk's sister who strongly resembles John Elway."

And here I thought ccrunner was the only one overly interested in sacks.

Te'o doesn't blitz a whole lot. When Notre Dame wants to get to the quarterback they use Shembo/Tuitt/Lewis-Moore and Nix. Tuitt has 12 sacks (12.5 leads the country), Shembo has 7, Lewis-Moore has 4.5, Nix has 2. When your front four get to the QB constantly, why bring the MLB in who has excelled in pass coverage? Notre Dame is 12th in the county in sacks; that'd be some retarded Jon Tenuta type bullshit. Instead Te'o is smothering TEs/RBs in passing routes and has six interceptions (second in the country).

That has nothing to do with his Heisman chances. But Jesus lord some of you have demonstrated a pathetic lack of understanding.

Really the Heisman will come down to "Well, there's no one really wowing us....sooooooo wtf.." and the votes will be split as they sometimes are and the winner will have like 30% of the vote.

Crimson streak;1324975 wrote:I think I do remember hawk being mentioned about the heisman at one point though

He finished sixth

Tiernan;1325006 wrote:I think you are remembering this "...A.J. Hawk is dating Heisman Trophy candidate Brady Quinn's sister who strongly resembles John Elway."

fify :rolleyes:

sjmvsfscs08;1325013 wrote:And here I thought ccrunner was the only one overly interested in sacks.

Te'o doesn't blitz a whole lot. When Notre Dame wants to get to the quarterback they use Shembo/Tuitt/Lewis-Moore and Nix. Tuitt has 12 sacks (12.5 leads the country), Shembo has 7, Lewis-Moore has 4.5, Nix has 2. When your front four get to the QB constantly, why bring the MLB in who has excelled in pass coverage? Notre Dame is 12th in the county in sacks; that'd be some retarded Jon Tenuta type bullshit. Instead Te'o is smothering TEs/RBs in passing routes and has six interceptions (second in the country).

That has nothing to do with his Heisman chances. But Jesus lord some of you have demonstrated a pathetic lack of understanding.

Really the Heisman will come down to "Well, there's no one really wowing us....sooooooo wtf.." and the votes will be split as they sometimes are and the winner will have like 30% of the vote.

Delusional. Shazier makes plays; Te'o drops back into coverage get catches deflections. I'll take the former every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

lhslep134;1324963 wrote:Okay that's fair, the AJ Hawk comparison isn't relevant then.

You can only compare him to other ILB's, that are Hawaiian, played in a 3-4, and wore #5. That's the only fair comparison.

se-alum;1325031 wrote:You can only compare him to other ILB's, that are Hawaiian, played in a 3-4, and wore #5. That's the only fair comparison.

and play for ND!!